Who believes that to use a weapon in a self defence situation is a perfectly moral thing to do? Would you advocate carrying a weapon for such situations? Or do you teach what may be used if necassary? Budo.
Judderman, You better believe it!!!! David didn't slay Goliath with a spinning back kick but with a sling shot and a rock to the head!!!!!!!!! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
LOL! Eddie remember over here we are not quite as "relaxed" to weapons as our Trans-Atlantic brethren! I personally do not recommend carrying a weapon AT ALL because it instantly makes you arrestable. An offensive weapon is anything made, adpated OR INTENDED for use as a weapon. However, if you learn how to use everyday objects as weapons, now that is different. Pens can act as yawara's, lighters as...well lighters really (a burnt face is not good and the butt can be used to hit). Even a tin of beans in a bag can be like a set of nunchukas! An improvised weapon has an instant get out of jail clause in that it has another use besides combative. They can act as great equalisers for size/strength, but the user must have the awareness and reactions to employ it. Even a gun is useless if it is at the bottom of your bag. Personally I don't like carrying weapons - ironic really when you consider I have a PR-24 and incapacitant spray by my side on a day to day basis. I much prefer to be "hands on" because it is always with me and cannot be taken away.
I believe that it’s a judgment call and that a person who has received and practiced proper training can have faith in his or herself that they have responded appropriately. People have the ability to make several decisions within fractions of a second, therefore, have many options available to them at all times. Therefore, a weapon in self-defense is perfectly moral if that was the appropriate course of action. I don’t advocate carrying weapons because I don’t carry a weapon personally. And I don’t want a student to quickly excuse his option of deadly force because I don’t have faith in the US legal system. What I have suggested to students in the past is if they would like something to carry then pick up a rock. Rocks can be used as a projectile or blunt weapon. Rock doesn’t necessary need to be deadly weapon and can be use to distraction while finding a exiting point. Moreover, a rock can be thrown away after its use or non-use. I believe that all women should should carry some kind of equallizer.
Hey, Ya'll still use the PR24, Yuck!!! Get the ASP it can be used like a Kali stick. Anyway back to the post, I don't care what kind of weapon/equilizer someone uses as long as they have something to help them. I don't believe in the I'm a proficient Martial Artist therefore I don't need a weapon and will rely on my self-defense skills. No way, I want to have the upper hand and that is after all the exact reason why we study Martial Arts!!! So we can be the one going to the house instead of the one going to the morgue!!! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
Actually we used the ASP in my last force - Kent - and I have to say it is vastly superior. My "two ASP" form was the terror of my colleagues! In GMP we use the pR-24, which is less than impressive. Even worse we have the polycarbon insert rather than the alluminium. This means you may as well be hitting them with a pillow for all the good in does. Allegedly it was chosen because of the sound it makes when it racks!!??!!? Happily in riots and public order we use the Arnold baton which is excellent!
hmm.. i don't know.. i always got told not to carry a weapons because then if something goes wrong it gives your attacker something else to attack you with! having said that i did carry a kobotan (spelling?) as a key ring for a while but figured because it was alwyas at the bottom of my bag and that i didn't trust my skills with it as much as i did with other things i was best of leaving it at home.. now i just follow my mothers advice and if i feel uncomfortable in an area i just keep my keyring in my hand with the keys jutting through the spaces between my fingers. pretty sure i could punch some one like that and hey i'd rather have a few broken fingers that anything else
Weapons I would have to agree with Hannibal, but also on the other hand I would ask him this, what do you think of this quote, I think it was Geoff Thompsom or someone much like him "better be tried by 12 than carried by 6" least that's how I think the quote went.
On the issue of having a weapon used against you, my suggestion is try taking a weapon away from someone. It's very difficult to do, unless you have total control of the situation. If you're at a point where your average attacker can disarm you, you have a lot more to worry about than if they'll use the weapon against you. I think the better lesson to teach is weapon improvisation. Hannibal's point is a great one about things in the UK. Living in the Wild West (aka the US) I do carry a knife, but I tend to use it for more functional every day thing than for self defense (even though it has a Karambit style foot print... I just love Karambits). Honestly, I doubt my ability to find and deploy a tactical folder under a pressure scenario (in much the same way I question the average Joe's ability to draw a gun, aim, disenage the safety, and fire under the same conditions). However, I also carry a lot of Pens and Pencils. And I have no doubt about the effectiveness of using them as stabbing weapons (typically from an icepick grip). There is no blade to deploy and typically they're pretty accessible. And if they aren't there, I am confident that if need be I'll be able to find environmental weapons to use. - Matt
Yeah, Geoff "borrowed" it! He is good at summing up attitudes with a pithy quote and he is a top bannana and all round good egg! I too would rather be judged by 12, but I have seen some right pillocks on the 12. In most cases you are judged by 3 (magistrates)...professional courtesy prevents me from giving my opinions on them! If you carry a weapon then you can be arrested without actually having used it (a bit like getting a hangover without enjoying the night before) so that is why I advocate "non" weapons (lighters, biros, torchs etc).
Rolf Harris? As an interesting "footnote" I stopped three very young lads last night. One had a small stone, one a small piece of wood and one a dart. Picture the scene - three small boys, never been in trouble EVER before (I know as we ran them through the computer) all looking at being arrested for possessing an offensive weapon. They said they were walking home and there was a gang out for them so they thought they needed protection. This I believed as there was a fight involving about 20 youths about 15 minutes earlier. These guys were so weak and inept they didn't even know how to lie to a Policeman convincingly - they just told me the truth outright! Anyway,I used my discretion and "accidentally" dropped the weapons down a nearby grid. THey would hav edone far more damage to themselves than to anyone else and I didn't think it was entirely in the "spirit" of the law to arrest and charge three otherwise OK lads for being stupid. The point is, if they had any pre-cons they would have been coming with me, if they had been "smart asses" they wold have come in too. But they thought that they were allowed to carry an implement for defence! Given the same situation again who knows? But last night I thought I did the right thing.
I carry a travel size hairspray cannister to spray up the nose and into the eyes. Hopefully, I'll never have to use it and explain why it was in my pocket. I don't even use hairspray normally...
I don't recomend carrying around knives or anything that can kill, but self defense tools are ok in my opinion. Example: Pepper Spray.
I rely on the deadliest, most effective weapon ever devised-the human mind. Since this is on women's self defense-keep in mind most police,prosecutors are not going to hold women to the same standard as men. Women using a weapon against a man are going to be seen as justified whereas a man might not. Remember, if you carry a weapon:If you pull it, USE IT! Don't use it as a security blanket, don't threaten with it(that's when they take it away from you)-use it.
I think its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and I'd be more than ready to use whatever I could get my hands on if I had to! yes, I do carry an odd assortment in my handbag, from the useful lovely pliers to a kubotan, and some pens. My car is full of weapons. I have arnis sticks behind my drivers seat plus an assortment of other things/tools that could be useful, plus it can go almost anywhere, and I've been known to drive it up [and down] flights of stairs and across paddocks, and over traffic islands etc. Most of all I'd be using my mind first to avoid a situation but if it all turned to custard, well... I'm prepared.
As to Judderman's original questions: It is not necessarily immoral to use a weapon in an effort to defend yourself. It all depends on the circumstances. People (who have reached the legal age of adulthood) should be able to carry weapons (including firearms) if they so choose. The law should not prohibit them from doing so. Personally, I don't carry any weapons.
I see where you are coming from, but the problem is that if everyday people can carry weapons legally so can criminals. You are giving them "cart blanche" to be equipped without any legal ramification. At the moment I can stop/search someone and arrest them for carrying a weapon (if I choose) thereby potentially stopping them comitting a crime. If I cannot do that I have to deal with the aftermath of the weapon being used - I can do nothing until it has.
Hannible would you arrest some one for carrying a kobutan? mines pretty simple just a wood stick with my keys on but i know it's a pretty grey area. I'm just wondering at what point woul d you decide it was dangerous ?
If I may jump in... Any object carried for the purpose of being used as a weapon is illegal. The Kobutan is known to be a weapon so not easily passed off as a key fob. If you were to carry a small torch attatched to your keys, you might get away with that. That said this is my own opinion, not legal advice.
