Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Shantari, Jun 22, 2004.
Thanks CFT, I stand corrected. I was taking the modern definition of steel.
"There is nothing new under the sun"
U.S martial arts are being explored and developed as we speak. Oh! the shock and awe of it all!
La Savaté began development around the beginning of the French Revolution. The navy developed Chausson as a game of fencing with their feet.
As for Muay Thai, the earliest record of it I have is 1257 AD.
There is evidence of Savate in the late 1700's, in the 1570's the Scots had a kick with a French sounding name 'Cowpe-darier' (a kick from behind) which may suggests French Foot Fighting may be even older.
Kicking in European martial arts certainly goes back to medieval times and can be found in Celtic folklore and mythology "Point of toe to root of ear!"
Apologies if this has been discussed already, but did/do the North American Indian peoples have forms of martial art, and are they still in existance today? I have heard that the various Inuit have grappling/wrestling forms (often suited to thick clothing), so perhaps there has been some percolation south?
IMO, the "original" fighting system for the U.S. was what the Native Americans used pre 1492. After that it was almost squashed with the advent of the crossbow, musket, then rifles & pistols, but was still passed on for a long time. I've read accounts of the old west when cowboys as well as Army calvary patrols feared hand to hand conflicts with the indians. "Those injuns fought real dirty'n mean like" and "I saw one Comanche warrior kill five soldiers in less than six seconds with nothing but a knife" were some of the quotes I remember. Now lately, I've seen ads where "Indian Martial Arts" are offered through video instruction, but I think it could be somewhat questionable as to the authenticity.
Check out this site concerning the martial arts of native americans. I'm looking for more.....but so far, this seems like good stuff....so far.....
Just for informational purposes, the crossbow was also invented by the Chinese. That is in addition to the other inventions I already mentioned.
An instructor claims yaomachtia is an Aztec martial art. I don't know if it is true, but he teaches it. The Aztecs had a university dedicated to fighting: war, martial arts, etc., so to think that the Europeans were better martial artists is ridiculous. The only reason it may not be in existence today is because the Spaniards burned all of their books, which took 3 days straight.
We're having several discussions at the same time here, because we put different interpetations into the consept martial art.
If we focus on the melee/unarmed -part, and skip the M1 Abrahams and your B-2 bombers for a minute, there might be possible to make some sence on this topic :bang:
We should allso bury and forget any ambition to rank martial arts on who was/is best; darwinism works best on other subjects. To say that reenacters are stupid because of their practice of old and outdated arts is silly, because they don't strive for becoming the "best martialartist" (if they ever exist it's in martialartmovies ).
I think it's accurate to say that indians had developed martial arts, and that martial arts that have been refined or (re)defined in USA can be called USA'an martial arts.
What makes reconstructing a martial art so difficult is the fact that you work on so little evidence. I try to help restore/understand the longswordmanual "floss duellatorium" from Italy,1410, and there is so many assumptions and interpetations that most of us are extremely humble and careful about proclaiming to see the light :Angel:
You Indian-martial artists have a similar problem, but in addition, you don't even have written manuals to work from, now that's a challenge I think you will experience some of the same problems as those claiming to know Viking martial arts etc here in Europe. They generally have big problems with gaining respect in the re-enactment/MA-communities as they have no way of prooving that their claims are accurate and because there are several pretentious people that cheat (for instance applying EMA-stick-arts in seminars and claiming that it is a family tradition that reaches back to the age of Harald Fairhair, etc )
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