Hi George... One example of needing to fight in a particular costume (rather than try it in her everyday outfit) Was wondering why various club v sock techniques were added to this manuscript? Most of Talhoffer's book appears to the modern reader to be a training guide or repository of techniques...(Staged characters, although a bit more bloodier than Paul Hector Mair's work). But I doubt if this section would be aimed at training angry wives how to use a sock rock , or forewarning husbands what to expect .... so is this book more likely to be 'just' a pictorial record of judicial duels and the techniques illustrated the ones used on the day - rather than an illustrated guide to medieval fighting which Fiori's appears to be???? All Opinions Welcome!!! Louie
talhoffer put a great deal into the manuscripts he produced. Diagrams of seige equipment, agricultural implements and the like. Its more like a modern day blog of his world than a dummies guide to combat. Why else depict the judicial duels other than to document his world. Slightly later George Silvers treatise goes into his contempt for the rapier and several other of his opinions that would get me suspended from MAP if I repeated them. The treatise was the masters chance to tell the world what he thought and liked and saw. Some of them I think had an eye on the future and a little immortality.
I am having a hard time picturing this. I would appreciate it at the next class of the GCoD Hamster and Louie freeplay, one armed with Sock and Rock, the other with club. This will give me a clearer understand of the subject and would help me as a new student to the WMAs. While a hole may be difficult to come by, I think a wheelie bin would serve its purpose. Period dress isn't necessary, but would be funny.
Actually I think the next freeplay George has to wear turnshoes as well so we all can laugh our asses off as he attempts Leichtenauer On Ice. The Bear
if we ever were going to put up a video onto Utube ........ this would be the one I would be willing to do. Admittedly we'd be ostracised from the rest of HEMA and the BFHS would cancel our membership before we ever joined properly. However Dan Bowen would have new respect for us and chosonninja would probably incorporate the techniques into the DTG. Will nip down to where the Forte hotel used to be and get a brick at lunchtime. ps will wear period costume if you want ....... wait till you see the size of my codpiece! Its very impressive.
Uniforms then. Shorts or tights? What's peoples preference. What would be the purpose of such sock and rock training? For scaling walls?
Note the other picture in the last frame, that is upside down; there you can see how the guy in the pit have locked the rock in sock-weapon with his club. This manual is very good for looking at how doublets, shirts and hose was put together around 1450, very good info for re-enacters. I've actually made a costume of wool based on theese pictures
You've made peter pan costumes for re-enactment? There's some kinky stuff in Norway. Gotta be tights, we would look just silly in shorts. The Bear.
And a permanent fashion. Whoever lost the duel but survived was hanged anyway under Swabian law. Best regards, -Mark
Ah; we're pretty kinky in Norway Here's my (long awaited post of a "Hestpeis"; a police baton from norwegian 16th/17th century.) My previous attemt at posting this weapon was deleted because of it's content, so I'm not quite sure how to describe this weapon without breaking the rules of MAP :saz: I'll try anyway... This is a roughly 40 cm long bantong worn by law-enforcer to "discourage" upprehended people from trying to resist. It's made by two or more Oxen or horse genitalia, twined together and reenforced by brass fittings in the ends. As you can see, one of the surviving items also had the possebility to use it as a whip. They were allso made by twining hemp-rope, but the name "hestpeis" (horse***) was kept regardless Hope this passes censor
Here's another type of weapon from Norway. As Norway allways have kept a conscription-army, even when the rest of europe relied on mercenaries, norwegian peassant weapons have been somewhat more warlike than the improvised peassantweapons of the european peassant-uprisings. Theese 3 axes are war-axes meant for conscript-peassant-warriors, and are from the 17th century. The bent axeshaft is quite special, and since only one axeshaft from viking-norway have survived, some speculates that -at least some of the axeheadmodels found from viking-age -might have been shafted the same way.
like I said ... sensible policies for a happier home life. As they weren't that common (but not unknown) I can only imagine these judicial duels were kicked off for serious matters like adultery where there was blatant cheating in public. Still think the bloke has the advantage as long as he protects his head and can trap the sock on his arm.
Thorny Spear? Unusual Irish weapon from 1581 - This Irish warrior carries a Blackthorn with the thorns left in, it's spear-head is pointed towards the ground (probably because he's negotiating with an English army !!!) What looked like a cord-like loop or whip seems to be attatched to the opposite end Perhaps more of a club/thrusting weapon that was attatched to the wrist rather than a throwing weapon? Louie
William Keally, the stick maker I interviewed, told me that that some people did left the thorns on their sticks, a practice inherited from the pre-celtic inhabitants, and if you see the thorns on those, you immediately see how it could be used. As for rocks in socks, they were the signature weapon of Irish women in faction fights, sometimes embellished with razor blades. Ahh, those Irish gals ... :love: Hopefully the ones who attacked us in county clare didn't had those instruments (and I don't mean attacked as in a good way).
I met a wee auld fellah once* in Neilston a small town near Barrhead in Scotland who had a lovely Blackthorn walking stick with the thorns still on all down all but one side of it and about the last 8 inches at the foot and a head like a club hammer. Turned out it had been his granda's and he was from Millstreet Co. Cork originally. Bet it had seen some action. * this was in the mid 90s and he was in his mid 70s at least.
Highland 'Broad-saw' The Highlander on the right of this illustration taken from the Penicuik sketches, (dated from around the time of the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745) can be seen carrying a broadsword with an unusual saw-like edge. Not to be confused with a European flambard or flamberge "flame blade" which had undulating or wave-shaped edges similiar to the Indonesian Kris... This broadsword looks to have been modified to rip through an opponent rather than cleave. Louie
Makes me wonder how they sharpen the blade, it seems the edge could easily be broken or cut of by another blade.