Certainly they diverged over time. Though I might mention Po Eun That doesn't add to the 'simultaneous development' idea though. That's more about TKD diverging from its karate roots over time. Mitch
I agree that it's not really important, but I was wondering: Doesn't the above mainly count for WTF-TKD? I'm pretty sure I read that most ITF-clubs here have jackets that are crossed and not the closed ones :dunno: Just curious.
It becomes harder to differentiate when you consider how much karate has diverged and changed since TKD was founded. Shotokan in some respects has not changed much, in others a great deal. The kata changes in Shotokan are very minor (compared to what we can see in the books from the 20s and 30s) and in that sense the differences between Shotokan and Okinawan Shorin styles are not so much about Japanisation as the difference between Matsumura/Asano lineage karate (with a later addition of Itosu) and Nagahama/Itosy lineage (with a later addition of Matsumura). That's a statement that would infuriate a lot of Okinawan karateka. Kata-wise I used to know about 25 of the modern Shotokan canon, but these days I only teach 15 as per the kyohan, though I have as a matter of preference ditched one of the (more modern) kyohan forms in favour of another. I don't know any of the TKD forms well enough to draw the parallels. In terms of techniques I can spot differences, especially in the kicks, but while they distinguish between Shotokan and TKD they do not necessarily distinguish between karate and TKD as there is so much variety amongst the karate styles. Ultimately differences tend to be the result of different compromises along sliding scales of bell curves of power, biomechanical efficiency, range, telegraphing etc. Different ranges and priorities beget different approaches. That's an interesting list, but there are things on it that I would say karateka do.
I was just thinking exactly that. I'd argue that TKD has as much in common with some styles of karate as different styles of karate have with each other. Kyokushin and wado being almost polar opposites for example and yet still both "Karate" (although I know there's a certain feeling in some quarters that wado would be better termed as a ju jutsu style IIRC).
A major difference which is related somewhat to the "Deeply rooted idea" is the use of knee flexion or lack thereof to help generate power in hand techniques. This can be evident where Karate may keep the head level while moving but the Chang Hon system will have the body and therefore the head lower and raise due to knee flexion as they step and even while stationary executing hand techniques. This Knee Flexion, (sometimes referred to as knee spring) giving a smooth rise and fall to the body was called "Sine Wave" by General Choi to contrast it from the level headed motion which he called "Flat Wave" . He also did not want it to be sharp and angular which he called saw tooth wave.
Although that isn't common to all karate and is evident in good kata application and there are clear 'exceptions' to the 'same height' approach throughout solo karate kata.
Well, then perhaps therein lies the distinction. The rule with exceptions for TKD is the exception to the rule in Karate.
Well the same height is more of a Japanese karate thing rather than an Okinawan karate thing, and even in kata is is broken so often that it is a bit like the i before e except after c rule (more things break it than adhere to it).
From my limited experience (5th dan in KKW Taekwondo) with cross training with ITF schools, ATA students, and lots of other TKD schools (including quite a few in Korea), I find the "bits and pieces" relatively the same, with the biggest differences coming in how they are applied. In the WTF, the style of sparring has led to a different style of using the kicks (lots of lead leg, spinning, switching, etc) as well as 'new' patterns (Tae Geuk) that fit more withb the sparring style. When working with other TKD groups or even the Shotokan groups, I have found that we generally all use the same tools, just in different ways. The list you mentioned (from Facebook) was pretty superficial (as you said). Uniforms vary quite a bit across Taekwondo groups (v-necks in WTF with black trim for black belts and cross over doboks for ATA people with different colors based on black belt level) and many groups use the double wrap belt. The 'locking eyes when bowing' is a Korean cultural no-no... and while some groups teach that it is 'OK', others don't. The lockstep idea of 'only one group is the one true Taekwondo' is silly... and seems more like a way of keeping people from looking too closely at other arts and seeing the similarities (or the differences or places that may need refinement).
Plus it really upsets all the Johnny come lately's who who resisted the name and then adopted it to capitalize on the popularity, as well as those who might have not been accepted as "TKD" until much later. Of course some are Taekwondo, some Taekwon-Do and some Tae Kwon Do.
And all of them are νκΆλ, regardless of how people play around with the Romanization of the name.
