Thought I'd throw this out there... (see what I did there ) How many Karate-ka on this board can say they have been taught and practice ukemi in their dojo? As a wado-ka (with its jujutsu DNA), it occurs to me that most dojo I train in have no idea! But am I missing something - do we really need to know? Gary
As in breakfalling? No, very rarely taught or practiced. I agree that it should be and, given the choice, I would make sure it's practiced regularly. However, as a non-grappling art, it's quite possible to practice years of karate without needing to breakfall.
we used to at my first dojo (both breakfalling and rolling). however my sensei didn't like judo breakfalls, so our methods were haphazard at best and i never got the hang of it properly (the rolls i learned well, though). i've been to some dojos where it was probably done, but i don't remember if i did it when i was there, some where they probably didn't give a crap about it, and one where we did but it was because the sensei mixed outside stuff into the syllabus.
strongly disagreed. sweeps and takedowns are everywhere in karate, and if you can't breakfall, you're screwed in that respect. i've taken enough wooden floors to the back of the head to learn that the hard way.
Ahh sorry Moosey, yes I mean breakfalling. Your point about karate being a "non-grappling" art is my point also. As folk get more and more into the "application" of their karate and, from what I see, that being a lot more throwing and grappling - shouldn't we be training ukemi to cope with that? Gary
Ukemi means to receive. It doesn't mean rolling, it means being able to absorb attacks which is a bigger thing than Taihenjutsu, or what you might consider the art of the rolypoly. Ukemi therefore should be studied in every martial art. Taihenjutsu certainly helps in no grappling arts too as its just learning the proper way to fall down and get up again, and learning the proper way to move is key to every art.
When we've trained somewhere with access to mats we occasionally done a little bit , but on the whole , no. It's one of the reasons I now also train Aikido.
Im not a Karateka. However I always used to always used to like training with you guys in my Aikido days - as you guys really know how to strike - especially reverse strike - Yaka Tsuki? Ukemi :- IMHO its a a lot, lot, lot more than just breakfalling and rolling around. Its all about developing very fine energy control release and change, through constant repositioning, alignment, timing and movement and developing respitory and physical stamina; and ultimately developing reversals. I can no longer take serious breakfalls constantly and my Aikido days are almost certainly sadly behind me now. Koyo would explain this to you guys so much better as he was a Karateka before 50 years of Aikido.
I have done a fair bit of other MA, and nothing beats Aikido for developing Ukemi, it just takes a heck of a lot of energy out of you.
One issue may be what type/style of ukemi? While its going to have similarities across the board you will get differences depending on the system, context and other factors. How would that be taken into account in Karate?
That's kinda my point Mr Winchester, I don't think ukemi is taken (seriously) into account in any of the major Karate styles....
Yes, definitely. I think it should be taught to all karateka. However, it's another thing where a lot of today's teachers were never taught it by their teachers so don't know how to teach it themselves. Another side of the same argument would be that, to many, karate is a striking art. Asking "do you teach breakfalls?" would be like asking a boxer "Do you learn breakfalls?".
We do in my dojo, we learn to fall even before we learn to throw. We also learn rolling and quick pop ups from the ground.
I found that the Shotokan clubs I trained in that worked on mats did Ukemi and grappling, the ones that didn't have mats did stand up grappling and sweeps only but only took hip throws to the loss of balance stage and didn't practice ukemi.
The concept of taking to loss of balance stage only works once you have been slammed a certain number of times. I think Gladwell stated 10,000?
Noted, but you don't expect them to throw students onto tiled or unsprung wooden floors? They therefore worked as best they could with what were seen as very peripheral syllabus techniques (ie in the Kyohan but not on the grading syllabus). Getting swept onto a hard tile fall and trying to breakfall while you are held in such a way that your hip always hit first is surprisingly painful, but sweeps were a core part of the kumite syllabus.
