UFC 71- Liddell vs Rampage

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by Apotheosis, Mar 19, 2007.

  1. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Liddell went clearly limp and was staggering after the fight was stopped. He was out.

    If Din Thomas's opponent had not tapped for another second, Din could have taken the guy's forearm home in a basket. Not tapping out is not a legitimate defense against submissions, it's a BS gamble that your opponent is a nice enough guy to give up a locked in sub and risk losing rather than break your limb.
     
  2. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Those extra seconds can turn into minutes or even rounds. But the opinions of all are that, and if it was judged that badly in all rounds and not by the fighters KO'ing, it would be history very soon, I am inclined to believe.
     
  3. wazzabi

    wazzabi sushi eater

    chuck was KTFO. if you watch closely after he got up, he was saying "what happened?" chuck didn't even know what hit him.
    that's how you know he was KTFO. it was right for Big John to stop it.
     
  4. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    ^^^

    right hook to the jaw, flash knockout he falls down. he recovers enough to bring his knees up and defend for a few seconds, then the next strike lands and his legs straighten out as he goes limp. ktfo. he's back just as the ref saves him from brain damage, but isn't aware of what's going on. textbook good call.

    as for din's armbar... the kid is lucky the ref didn't wait for him to tap. period.
     
  5. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Yes many are saying he was out. So how long was he out for?

    Many believe it was a good call.

    I am just mentioning that the two calls that are suspect in my mind were both called by him (John) that evening. He needs to be less of a player and let the contestents do what they are being paid for. IMHO...

    If you like the way that it was done, fine but I am just saying I'll never invest a dime into it again. Not a biggie for some. But for me I believe it is not quite correct. I wonder if Jackson believes he won, or was helped? Well that is a question he will evade LOL... :D
     
  6. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    the referee is required to stop the fight if either fighter ceases to intelligently defend himself. chuck's good, but i'm relatively certain he's unable to intelligently defend himself when unconcious.
     
  7. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    funny...normally everyone picks on Herb Dean and his controversial calls.
     
  8. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Why would Jackson even consider the absurd notion that he was "helped" to win? Chuck was out. Completely limp. More blows were raining down. Elbows and punches to the face will not promote a recovery from unconsciousness, and that's all Chuck was going to be getting.
     
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Well from what I read he was, "recovered by the time John" decided to stop the fight. So much for your thought... It was a millisecond not a second that he was unconcious.

    Rampage did not rain down a lot of blows nor elbows. That I saw anyway.

    We can all speculate now but the truth of the matter is, if John had waited and not jumped in and observed for 2 more seconds the fight would have either gone on, or Rampage would have had a truly good win.

    I recall one when Evans knocked out Salmon and it was still not called until it was obvious as to his state of conciousness.
     
  10. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    The only bad call I saw was the Salaverry vs Martin fight...

    Martin clearly landed numerous blows to the back of the head...
     
  11. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Salmon was rushed to the emergency room after the fight and could have taken severe brain damage.

    Chuck was fortunately spared from that fate:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Atharel,
    Thanks that is the best I have seen, I don't have that good of picture about the fights. One hit is all I see, if he was in that state that you are saying.

    I appreciate your posting that. Now how do I go about copying that to my docs? I'll try in case you have given up on me :rolleyes:

    Still it is not going to convince me, :ban:

    Gary :D
     
  13. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Chuck was finished. It was pretty clear and he admitted it himself.

    As far as Din Thomas' win...

    Well, the ref is supposed to stop the fight if injury seems inevitable. Personally, I think it's a bad rule. If a fully conscious/aware fighter at that level can't get out of an armbar, he should be able to recognize it and tap. If he thinks he can still get out of it, he should be given the opportunity to do so. If he's enough of an idiot to get his arm broken because he refused to tap, he'll be injured for a while and there will be more room on cards for fighters that are not idiots. Also, not everyone is as susceptible to every submission as everyone else. There are some cases where fighters get screwed because the ref thought they'd had enough. Royler Gracie against Sakuraba comes to mind. I'd rather prevent situations like that than provide a safety net for fighters that refuse to submit when they should.

    That said, he really didn't win by submission and the result should be ref stoppage.
     
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    That said, he really didn't win by submission and the result should be ref stoppage

    **************************

    Yes I agree, I believe I am closer to agreement than others seem to see.
    I am just pointing out how easy it is to add a third equasion and not having the fight actually be handled on its own merits. I am wondering if CL would have liked to be given that extra 2 second's or not?

    Not really something that can happen but maybe the next time it will not be stopped so fast? Or it might be LOL...


    I should write John and bug him some. I'll say he is catching it by a few at work. :p

    I'd like to add anyone who thinks CL was not in shape, just look at his back muscle's come into play, that was a good shot to the liver area, he was/is in very good shape. Different body types. That showed the good shape of QJ also, but CL made a mistake of not covering. Oh well..Life in the fast lane can be deadly.
    Gary :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  15. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    In there interests of safety, it should be. Fighters can choose when to tap out to an armbar, but they can't choose when the other guy will stop bashing their heads into the ground.
     
  16. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    I agree with this BUT I just think the refereeing in the UFC isn't as consistent as I want it.

    Better example than Liddell v. Rampage II was Liddell v. Ortiz II. The first time Chuck had Ortiz down he was raining down punches down for about 2 min. and eventually Ortiz got up. In the second round he only landed a flurry of punches for a few seconds before the ref stopped the fight. I actually wouldn't have minded a stop during the first flurry but I've got issues with the second flurry cuz it was less severe than the first flurry.

    Just saying that the refs shouldn't have to play it as safe because fighters in championship bouts should have more mettle than other contenders. I mean having refs give fighters more leeway in getting out of bad positions in champion bouts is based on the same logic to me as having five rounds instead of three. It's there to make fights more definitive.

    I just judge everyone more harshly in championship bouts, judging, refing, even the fighters.
     
  17. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    ;)
     
  18. Tom O'Brien

    Tom O'Brien Valued Member

    Chuck KO'd

    Atharel,

    Thanks for posting those clips of the KO. Chuck had absorbed 2 more right hands to the chin after he was down. You could see that he could not focus his eyes even several seconds after big John stopped it.
    thanks again,
    Sensei Tom
     

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