UFC 203 - What a weird show

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Southpaw535, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm too tried to do a proper write up for every fight last night, but the last three I think deserve some attention.
    Cm Punk

    Credit where its due dude took GNP he clearly didb't know how to deal with better than I have in my fights, but that fight was embarrassing for him and embarrassing for the UFC. He clearly had no idea what he was doing and yeah I know money etc, but the UFC shouldn't be holding debut fights for people and certainly not 2 away from the main event. That was a carnival fight and it just made me feel sad really.

    Browne v. Werdum

    A few things with this one. What are people's thoughts on both Browne stopping the fight over his finger and Werdum punching him? I know they had the chat with the commission (I think?) guy who said you can't call for a time out in the ufc and I agree. I think Browne wanting to stop for an injury means he should have been either DQ'd or had a NC.

    Werdum hitting him I'm really torn over. On one hand, as Rogan said at the time the ref never called time so it was probably legal I suppose, but they had a little moment exchange before Browne turned away and he was blatantly holding an injury and talking to the ref and Werdum took some time to decide to hit him. Like I say guess technically it was fine but that should have at least been a point deduction to me.

    As for the little scuffle after, that's a DQ or a match throw out regardless. But it was more exciting than the fight so hey.

    Overeem


    Wins the prize for strangest gameplan. Overeem's chin has been suspect for a little while and I guess he's realised that? I don't actually have a problem with fighters turning away and running away in a fight, seems like a fair way to create space, but at least do it with your hands up and not by your waist when you're within punching range.


    So I have three questions for people:

    1. Do you think the UFC was right/wrong/meh who cares to hold the Punk fight?

    2. What are your thoughts on all the bits with the Werdum/Browne fight?

    3. Do you think Overeem, and other fighters, should have been penalised for his running tactics?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2016
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Dude, you need to moderate your own topic ;) It's only Sunday.
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Depends what you think is important. If you think the integrity of MMA as a sport is important then it's a terrible move. But then MMA is replete with fights that make a mockery of it as a sport (Kimbo/Dada for example). If making money for the UFC is important then it's maybe a great move (no idea who Punk was before he signed with the UFC but I hear he was popular with the "comedy soap opera for men/WWE" crowd. If the validity of the UFC is important then it's also a bad move. IMHO having a striped white belt in with a brown belt is laughable and went about as you'd expect such a fight to go.

    I loves me some Werdum. He's one of those people that genuinely doesn't give a monkey's and I like that. I find it very hard to criticise anyone for hitting Edmond T but that's a big no-no in a combat sport. But then Edmond wasn't exactly behaving professionally either.
    As far as I'm concerned if you communicate to the ref you want the contest stopped then that's essentially a verbal tap out. If it's because of some clothing malfunction (glove slip, wraps coming loose, shorts falling down) then sort the malfunction and let the fight continue. A dislocated finger (I think that's what it was) is not a clothing malfunction and should have been considered conceding the bout I think. Plenty of fighters break hands and fingers and carry on.

    Tricky. Other sports penalise passivity and stalling so maybe. It can be a fine line between being evasive and actually running. Machida was evasive but I don't think ever turned his back and ran. I don't think you can really penalise it but it does look bad. Not sure this is a good comparison but in dog fighting a dog turning away is considered wanting out of the fight (a turn is called) and that starts each dog having to scratch to the other dog to prove they are still game and want in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  4. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Spoiler tags added for you. :)
     
  5. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    I think they were wrong the same way they were wrong to hold Kimbo Slice. It's an exhibition, a bit of a joke, and kind of dumps on all the people who've legitimately worked their way up who aren't just celebrities. This is what happens when you don't have any legitimate ranking system and the president can just do whatever will pull the most tickets and PPV sales. This will always happen as long as it makes money and there's no system to stop it.
    I agree with Smitty. I think if you have an injury and the fight isn't called by the ref, and you're deciding you can't continue, that's a tap.
    There are plenty of people who've done this over the years. Heck McGregor was doing it against Diaz in his last fight. He'd get a bit separated and scamper all the way across the cage. I think it's hard to penalize this kind of behaviour, that is to draft specific rules, without affecting the people who like to counter a lot.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    UFC was brilliant to do so. The sheer amount of extra interest it generated for months, from Punk's training to selection of his opponent, was well worth it. Add to the cross-over of UFC and WWE fans (and antics of pre-fights and so on), and this was a natural hit. To take a top-level WWE guy and get him in the ring was brilliant. If he won, you keep the train going. If he lost, well... it fuels those who hate the WWE and see them as fakers.The money and (national level media) interest generated by putting him in the ring was well worth it

    That said, I feel bad for Gall... he gets hit on both sides. Some view him as a 'human sacrifice' of no great worth who, if he loses to Punk, is seen as being unworthy and if he beats Punk is seen as a natural occurrence. I hope he can translate this win into a good next match.

    What a strange little match, huh?

    As for the finger/injury thing, if I were Werdum, I would have hit him too. There is no "time out" in the "as real as it gets" game and you know that. If you want the time-out, then you throw the towel in and the match is over. To me, it falls into the same area as releasing a submission because you saw the tap, but the ref didn't.... yeah, it might be sporting but it can lose you the match.

    The fight thing at the end was silly and very unprofessional.

    Nope. To me, there should just be 'natural consequences', i.e., if you are seen as running away and not engaging, then you shouldn't get picked up for higher level fights and the audience shouldn't be your fan. If you can use evasion to win matches (and fans), go for it.
     
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I have had like 2 hours sleep :p

    Also still stand by my usual point that that thread title blatantly hints its going to be discussing the results buuuuuut...
     
  8. Rated Red

    Rated Red ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Supporter

    1. Do you think the UFC was right/wrong/meh who cares to hold the Punk fight?

    This is an organisation of elite fighters. Punk is still learning. It was silly to take someone at his level of non-experience on board, and I hope can I say this without coming off as being disrespectful, but I believe it was ludicrous to think Punk would have a chance at being successful at this stage of his game. The UFC basically handfed a baby lamb to a wolf.

    One thing I did ask myself after watching that fight... Who do I dislike more? Northcutt or Gall?



    2. What are your thoughts on all the bits with the Werdum/Browne fight?

    What other bits? I'm still in awe over that flying side kick.
     
  9. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    If Browne wants to stop he's TKO'd, the rules are extremely clear. Werdum hit him when the referee had in no way indicated a stoppage, that's why they say "Protect yourself at all times". How can you say someone should have a point deducted for something you admit is legal, Southpaw?

    The Ohio commission is meant to require five amateur fights or some evidence of competence for a pro license, so the ba$i$ on which "CM Punk" acquired one is quite the my$tery (their stated reason being that he has "a wrestling background like Lesnar").

    In the actual fight he acquitted himself quite well for a guy with grossly inadequate skills who had no business being there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  10. PsychoElectric

    PsychoElectric Valued Member

    Overeem vs Stipe- Enjoyable fight. If people thought Conor was running then Overeem was full out sprinting.

    Werdum vs Travis- Protect your self at all times.
    Browne's gone down hill since switching camps and has the worst cornering ever.

    CM Punk vs Gall- Went exactly how i thought it would.
    Very lucky he didnt get seriously injured.

    Edit: The Joe Rogan/Overeem octagon interview was cringeworthy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    1) dont blame the UFC really, they have showed over the years that there priority is making money not putting the best fighters together at least they are consistent in that, but it was embarrassing watching a deluded person realise what real fighting is all about, but how else was it going to play out? he isnt brock with a stellar amateur wrestling record and freak genetics hes an entertainer and not a very large or athletically gifted one at that
    And as Rogan said you stick a white belt with a legit brown belt that’s what tends to happen, adding in striking almost makes it unfair
    2) you cant call a time out in MMA, if the ref doesn’t do anything you keep hitting, in the later rounds weldum rubbed his eye like he got poked but the ref didn’t stop the fight and they both continued, it’s the refs job to look after the other fighters intresets not his opponent, if he drops his hands and walks away he deserves to get hit
    3) doesn’t make for a great fight to watch but until its made illegal it’s a strategy to use, just please keep your hands up
     
  12. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Partly because I don't knwo whether that counts as under the care of the referee, mostly because I think the way he did it falls into unsportsmanlike conduct.
     
  13. PsychoElectric

    PsychoElectric Valued Member

    Yeah Browne didnt act like he got a groin strike or eye poke... He basically tapped out.
     
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    So what would stop fighters from feigning a hand injury next time they are rocked? The rules are written as they are for a reason.

    It's the same with low blows and eye pokes. You fight until the referee tells you to stop.
     
  15. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    CM Punk - not the sort of thing that the UFC should be hosting, although perhaps there is a long game to explain how much better the UFC is than the WWE? Regardless, not something I'd pay for

    Browne - yep, you want to stop, you've tapped. Nothing wrong with verbal tap where you have a clear injury, but it doesn't stop and get restarted. Loved the side kick - but the scuffle at the end was embarassing

    Overeem - so far from his best its sad
     
  16. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Then they should be stopped. I said I thought Browne should have had the fight forfeited for stopping but because I think that should've been the case doesn't mean I don't think Werdum's actions are fine either
     
  17. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    He wasn't under the care of the ref because the ref was thinking about his bicep curl routine rather than watching the fight, which was the root of the problem.

    Nothing unsportsmanlike about punches in the face, they're pretty much the bread and butter of the sport.
     
  18. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Pausing to watch first, seeing your opponent is talking, then walking round to his blindside and hitting him I think has enough premeditation its not just continuing the flow of the fight while someone is distracted like Marquardt/Palhares for example. Also the referee hadn't stopped the fight properly, but he pushed him away after. If he wasn't stopping the fight and that punch was fine he should have stepped back and let them carry on not intervened
     
  19. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    There's nothing in the rules about that. Either the referee has stopped it, or the fight is on. Werdum doesn't have to worry about his opponent's state in any way other than whether there's a referee in between them, which there wasn't. Point to the rule that you think he broke, or some prior instance of hitting a guy when he isn't ready being called as "unsportsmanlike"?
    Agreed, but that's all refereeing incompetence, not Fabricio's fault.
     
  20. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Either of these would be my best guess

    -Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent (granted it didn't cause an injury)

    -Attacking an opponent during a break


    True
     

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