UFC 199

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by aaradia, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I agree. I also said that in my post. i also agree that the context of his comments are important, as you say, because your words have such a wide audience and you should be being not only culturally sensitive but aware of how your words will reflect on you.

    I disagree that those things are an excuse. They are reasons. Just as much as being an idiot for not policing your own vocabulary is a reason.

    Edit - just to be clear I'm not excusing his use of the term in the context he used it. I'm just attempting to explain how it doesn't inherently mean he is a homophone.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Language IS arbitrary, but as a counter to C words you also have "rooster", "donkey", "door handle", "small bird stealing cream from milk", "onanistic indulger".....or the synonyms if you get my drift

    The C bomb is - like these - a word for physical appendage/feature that for some reason has been deemed one of two obscene words in English (the other being F)...it does not target a group specifically and is used across gender
  3. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    No, sorry, the C-word is very much a pejorative term for a woman in the same way the the F-word is a pejorative term for a gay man and the B-word is a pejorative word for someone born out of wedlock. You don't get to pick and choose which pejoratives are OK and which aren't - well obviously you can, because hypocrisy has never been outlawed, but you shouldn't.

    These waves of collective outrage tend to come in phases - at the moment it is particularly fashionable (not the right word, but I'm struggling to come up with a better one) to express outrage at insults that are rooted in homophobia and that refer to those with special education needs (referring specifically to the use of the word 'retarded'). Those particular insults have become increasingly unacceptable regardless of the context in which they are used. I don't think this is a bad thing.
    A couple of decades ago (at least in the UK), it was insults relating to people's race that suddenly became unacceptable - you couldn't go around casually referring to substandard building work as 'Irish' anymore - again, not a bad thing and the result is that kind of lazy casual racist chat isn't nearly as much of a thing today as it used to be. Sure, racists still use it, but I haven't heard people refer to a small independently owned newsagents as a 'P*ki shop' in 15 years or more.

    I suspect in 10 years time, I'll be wincing everytime someone refers to a person or a situation as 'crazy' - because, mentally ill folks deserve some consideration too. But I also expect that 7 year old boys wont be calling each other 'gay' anymore, either.

    Change takes time.
  4. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Only in American English. I was really quite shocked the first time I heard it used in America because it clearly had a very different meaning.
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Precisely -in fact it has rarely, if ever, been used against women in the UK....in fact quite the opposite

    Canada shares the same outlook as the US with this word, hence it was reduced severely from my sweary lexicon
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I was in High school on a trip to a cinema to watch a film and the American lady running the show said "now be warned, this film features the worst word in the English Dictionary." I asked her what word was that and she said "The C word". I was still confused until someone whispered it to me. It had never been that offensive to me.
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Or me, in fact it was my second favourite profanity - however, when I learned how it was received over here I now use it far less
  8. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Wonder how In Brugges went down over there.
  9. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The word has been recorded as being used as a slang term for a vagina since the 13th century and has very much been used against women in the UK. You are free to read the history of the word on the internet, where it is well documented.
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually no it wasn't - it was not considered taboo at that time and was actually a "technical term" for the genitals prior

    OED has it as general insult whereas MW has it as to a woman....all of which backs up my exact point
  11. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Well yeah???? Historically in Britain it is more commonly used for men, although in the last 5 years or so has come to be used more for women as well, but more as an equal opportunity insult rather than as disparaging to women as women.
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Interesting. I actually don't really care about the nationality of fighters much either actually. My favorite all time fighter is GSP.

    I think it is cool when a San Diego based fighter wins sometimes - IF I already like him/ her. But there have been some San Diego based fighters that I disliked too. And I didn't root for them just because they were from my city.

    Some of the fighters I really dislike (besides Bisping) are American. Being American doesn't make me like them more.

    Pardon my ignorance, but I thought British and English basically meant the same thing. Can someone explain this? Or when I wake up more I guess I can google it.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  13. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    here you go
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10"]The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained - YouTube[/ame]
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country made up the three countries of Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland) and Northern Ireland. If you are a member of one of those 4 countries you are British as well as (English/Welsh/Northern Irish/Scottish).
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah it does. If you ask a Scottish or Irish person their nationality very rarely will there answer be "British". As far as I know English say British but it makes no sense north of the border.

    I think JT touched on this when we were talking about it. He said he was surprised how few people in Scotland consider themselves British.

    Basically anything you think of as British is actually English. For instance, Haggis and whisky are considered Scottish, and drinking tea is considered British/English. Even though it would be true to say Haggis is a British dish.

    You also get tourists doing "A British accent" and rarely will it be "Och aye Jock, she's no dain' the things shay use tae." A British accent is an English one (or rather, is considered as such by other countries outside of Europe).

    As to liking fighters because of nationality I think I'm the same. Love watching Stevie Ray and Jojo Calderwood fight, but wasn't such a fan of Whiteford. Mostly because he was always trying to hype fights in a weird way. Like Bisping and Dan Hardy too! I don't do the "Anyone but England" thing now I'm an adult.
  16. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Yeah, wrong :rolleyes:
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I don't think using a bad term automatically makes you sexist, homophobic, etc. It makes you - at the very least - insensitive to sexism, homophobia, etc if you continue to use it after being educated about what it means and how it affects that group of people. And, like Simon says, there is no excuse to keep using a term once educated about it in this day and age.

    Bisping, after reading just how often he uses anti-gay terminology, and the context in which he uses it - I would say actually is homophobic at this point. He is training in America right now, so he certainly knows how that term is used over here. And I am pretty darn sure he had been educated on it's meaning in other countries when he used that term in the past, yet he continues on. Even if he isn't homophobic, there is no excuse for his insensitivity or unwillingness to stop using anti-gay speech. Either way, I think it makes him a jerk.

    I can't comment much on your second issue, because I consider that word quite bad as well. There is no inconsistency in my views and I personally think both words should be treated as unacceptable in a similar fashion. When you quote me, you seem to assume I am ok with that word, but I am not. . I think a group gets to decide how they want to be defined. And that other groups don't get to decide what terms are ok or not for them. Size of the group does not matter. I don't get to decide what words are acceptable for another group. I try very hard to be sensitive and when I find out a word is considered largely unacceptable, I adjust accordingly.

    I agree- language IS weird. It is a living thing and changes over time. I just try to stay up on the changes and adjust accordingly.

    Edit- ok- I see I said a "large group" of people in that quote. Bad term on my part! I meant "another" group of people. You are correct in saying the size of a group shouldn't matter. And I don't actually believe the size of a group does matter. Sorry, I used a term that was an incorrect reflection of my beliefs.

    I will say though, that other isms exist amongst the GLBT population and that some members of one minority are bigoted against other minorities. You would think that one would understand other minorities better when you belong to one, but that isn't always the case. Racism and even trans phobia exist in the GLBT community. Sexism exists there too - I have met lesbians who have a very bad attitude about men. Some of the most homophobic experiences I have had were from the African American community here.

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  18. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Lol true, I'm English born and raised, I'm only British in the sense if I'm asked if I'm European or british its the lesser of two evils :)

    What Scotish or Welsh athletes do really does not interest me any more than French athletes for example, I mean i've never Cheered on Andy Murray although whether that's because he is Scotish or just plain unlikable and dour I have no idea.:)

    Come to think of it when the leak eaters play the cheese eating surrender monkeys I have no idea who to cheer for so maybe I'm less British and more European than I thought

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