Which of these can claim they are a Catch wrestler? a) Ric Flair b) Greg Gagne c) Ricky Steamboat d) Harry Smith e) Sakuraba f) Josh Barnett g) Marty Jones h) Iron Shiek i) Ken Patera Do you consider this to be training for MMA or Puroseau? [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nq1qgDHiJU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nq1qgDHiJU[/ame]
They also do a lot of "closed door" stuff in Japan so it is indeed likley that there is the "worked shoot" holds and the "CACC" holds that are at heart the same, but differ subtley Harry in Japan trains with as many shooters as he can and has a veritable "Who's Who" on his resume including Sakuraba, Fujiwara and Sayama....but there are few "workers" interested in learning the real deal because they are happy to make their money on the works It's a very different mindset and culture over there Sak had legit wrestling skills and so CACC was a natural for him...take way the "wrestling" from "Catch Wrestling" and you lose the majority of the effectiveness which is probably why the others could ot replicate his success in the same way
Let me put it this way: Did anyone get the super-secret-shooter sauce but just not turn out that good? Or is Catch Wrestling the only martial art with a 100% hit rate at making you awesome?
No idea but if you trained in catch as can holds under a catch wrestler, where do you draw the line Could any of these make a claim 1) Takada 2) Funaki 3) Anjoh 4) Shamrock Sak trained at the same school as Anjoh and takada, in the same organisation billy was paid to teach holds to Don’t they have exactly the same claim to the title as sak did, just because one was more successful than the other doesn’t mean they aren’t entitled to the name
Anjo apparently had real catch credentials, he just wasn't that great at it. Funaki and Shamrock obviously yes Takada must have had some catch training in the runup to Pride but was in no way proficient at it. It's like pointing to some BJJ white belt who gets ground into dogmeat and going "Maia's good, but doesn't this guy have a claim?"
Of course they can, in the same way Chris Barnett can claim to be a boxer from the same gym as Ricky Hatton The point is that it is Catch WRESTLING..... so anyone who is a high calibre wrestler instantly has a head start over someone learning from scratch I still don't call myself a Catch Wrestler, though at this point I probably legit could Catch Wrestling without the WRESTLING is just trick holds Also there is a HUGE difference between losing to a BJJ black belt and losing to Rickson. Also worth noting that - other than the fanboys who have never actually trained in it - I have never seen anyone suggest Catch is a panacea
He trained with Robinson for years, exactly like Sakuraba did? I don't see any evidence they trained "Catch" in some way distinct from their Puroresu training.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hFyRx5bqM[/ame] I blame Eddie bravo myself, he popularised true 10th planet catch wrestling!
nope just that one as you say was a standout wrestler and gifted grappler who could have probably made anything work
There's loads of nogi only places calling themselves catch wrestling now, which 8 out of 10 times, isn't true 100% of the time! Ha-ha!
Sak in a work [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HtaQVCHdE"]Bushido Vs New japan Sakuraba Vs Kiyoshi Tamura 96 - YouTube[/ame] Takada in a work [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1KOf19UAIs"]BUSHIDO Nobuhiko TAKADA Kazuo YAMAZAKI - YouTube[/ame] Even in a work it's obvious which one has the real skills As for the "bolt on" or "was the training different?"arguments If you come to train San Shou with me having competed in K1 rules and looking to compete in San Shou, you're going to learn stuff differently to the person who's looking to do some interesting exercise, even though you're training the same material in the same class.
Harry and his tag partner Lance train for pro wrestling but only one of them goes beyond the work to the shoot...and how? By asking
Because Sak can hook and Takada can't This is Takada training [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5rE3ztuD4&lc=VZtkQPqwXxANlqqEXx0NTUnrHkiIQ7lY2jGAJOP5rNo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5rE3ztuD4&lc=VZtkQPqwXxANlqqEXx0NTUnrHkiIQ7lY2jGAJOP5rNo[/ame] This is not even close to how Billy teaches or works
In the true spirit of catch as can the aim is catch what you can and break/damage it Or catch it then catch something else too and and break/ damage some more....so who taught who or what is not as important as someone breaking/ submitting someone else's arm or foot or toe or etc ,anyway that needs doing at that moment....that's how I see it. In the heat of moment, what the move is or how it's done or who taught it is irrelevant...You catch what you can.
There is some truth to that - The Great Gama, who dominated most wrestlers was a Kushti man who was able to thrive under Catch rules - but at the same time that is a bit like saying saying "boxing is just punching without being punched back" and there are optimal and less than optimal techniques [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqq_LWudBek"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqq_LWudBek[/ame]
