UFC 168: Weidman v Silva II

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by Mushroom, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    It's sport. 'What ifs' have always been a part of it.
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Nah. A prizefight is to see who is the technically better fighter. If Silva threw that kick at the wrong time then that's his fault. If Weidman timed it right, then that's his gain. In either outcome, Weidman was the technically better fighter.

    The way I'm seeing it is "if this had been a street fight, Silva lost clearly". So that to me is why Weidman is the better fighter.

    I see this as a legitimate win.
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    True, but I think there is a difference between, "What if Weidman hadn't finished Silva" versus, "What if Foreman came out for the 15th bell".
  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I'm sorry, but if I disagreed more I'd tear open a hole in the space-time continuum.

    Prize fights are not about the technically better fighter - technically superior fighters lose all the time - every time Roy Nelson wins, the technically superior fighter loses (that's a bit unfair, but I hope it illustrates the point).

    To claim that Silva throwing that kick was a mistake or that either he or Weidman could have reasonably foreseen the result is ludicrous and I'm not even sure Chris Weidman has the self confidence to declare himself technically superior to Anderson Silva.
    It's a legitimate win in terms of Weidman getting his hand raised, but that isn't going to stop people from adding 'yeah but...'s to conversations about Chris Weidman for the rest of his career. You can stamp your feet all you want about how unfair that is, but that's the cold hard reality.
  5. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Totally agree! It's like the guy who fights and wins every round, whether boxing, mma, etc, and then gets KO'd in the last minute or seconds... that's not the better man winning... it's the better man simply getting caught when 9 times out of 10, the superior fighter is still superior.
  6. ShadowHawk

    ShadowHawk Valued Member

    ^I dont see it that way. Win 4 rounds get KO'd in the 5th, I see the KO'd man inferior.
  7. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Mine are pretty defined and I think that I have a good genetic predisposition to growth ... or would like to think at least lol. I do need to do more calf work though. I upped my recumbent bike riding to 80 minutes, 4x a week with 3 days used as rest so they get rest. The other 3 days I do a lot of chest, tricep, bicep work and whatever else my bad shoulder will allow me to do.
  8. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I see the guy who gets the KO as lucky. Anyone can get caught, but if it wasn't a calculated punch/kick/elbow/etc then it's not talent that did it and thus that fighter will never get the respect that he or she deserves.
  9. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    The Roy Nelson analogy illustrates well and 'technically superior' fighters do lose, though any given technically sound fighter is not going to be able to loose too often if they are going to be around long enough to be recongised as 'technically superior'.

    Roy Nelson for the point, has had resounding success via a hard chin and a big heart but as he reaches the elite echelons those characteristics that have carried him on their backs, alone are proving to be insufficient as he encounters fighters with cardio and technical virtuosity - in addition to a comparable amount of heart and chin.

    I have to admit that I like A. Silva. I derive the same sort of emotional satisfaction watching him fight as I do watching the Matrix, Sugar Ray fights, many of Ali's, etc. and I know that he is going to encounter periods of loss - and its well within statistical reasonability that these losses could occur with a technically inferior opponent; just as I know that 7 consecutive 'tails' is within the bounds of statistical normalcy.

    However, I'm not going to question any of Weidman's (Championship) wins, which have all occurred in sanctioned events under the Unified MMA ruleset, have been well refereed and especially, have not been awarded via the vagaries of subjective human edict (i.e. decisions) but wins declared due to a combatant being unable to continue, per Unified MMA rules.

    Although I don't quite enjoy the display of fighting prowess by Weidman as I have by Silva, with a 11 wins ( 3 via judges' decisions) and 0 losses, I'm not holding to an opinion that Weidman is an inferior fighter who is MW Champion as a result of consecutive flukes.

    Weidman will set his course as he defends his title, my opinions of his fighting merits, what they are, will follow accordingly.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  10. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Ok then, based on this logic, I assume you think of GSP as GOAT over Silva then?

    Wiedman's KO was well timed and executed, not a fluke. Taking advantage of knowing how his opponent fights and doing what no one else could do.

    The whole "Silva clowned around and it was a fluke" argument is silly. Silva used clowning around as a fighting tactic, and it WORKED for many fights. Then, it doesn't work and it is an excuse to dismiss the winners achievment.

    If Silva had only clowned around during the first fight with Wiedman, I could see this as valid. But he has done it most of his fights in his career. And no one could take advantage of it.

    I just dont' get this way of thinking. Ko'ing someone takes skilll. technique, talent and power. It is an intended way to end a fight. A goal fighters strive for.
  11. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Why are people still calling it an accident and a fluke? It was an intentional destruction. You can say "nobody could predict the bone break," but that's not necessarily true. A bone break using either the point of the knee or the elbow to check a full force strike is a relatively likely outcome. On one of the Paul Vunak's videos floating around Youtube he tells a story about a bar fight where one of his training partners used a destruction against a haymaker thrown at his head. The training partner checks the fist with his elbow and apparently the guy's fist splits open so wide there is quite a bit of exposed bone visible, the guy drops to the bar floor screaming, and Vunak's training partner jokingly offers to buy him a beer for his trouble.
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Weidman couldn't predict the leg break but he could certainly predict "this is gonna hurt Silva".
    It's not like he was a static punching bag passively being hit.
    He moved in such a way as to maximise his defensive actions and minimise Silva's offensive ones.
    In much in the same way you can't totally predict a KO punch but you can throw a punch with the intention to hurt and get a KO anyway.
    I've no idea why people don't see this as a legit win for Weidman?
  13. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    That's a fair point. Even if they aren't sure a break will be the outcome of a destruction, anyone training them to a high level of proficiency probably assumes they're possible. What I'm sure they're confident of though is that they will probably cause some damage and discourage future strikes like they are intended to do. That's a pretty easy conclusion to draw because reportedly those training them at higher contact levels using Thai pads and gloves still need to regularly "walk it off" when connecting with a well-timed elbow or knee tip. Anything that stings that badly using safety equipment is probably gonna cause some lasting damage without it.
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Posted that earlier in the thread - it was Tom Cruse
  15. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Silva made his own mistake in throwing a full power inside low kick with no set up,felt so bad for him when his leg broke though,to me thats the end of his career which given how he fights nowadays compared to how he was years ago his best days are behind him anyway.
  16. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Valued Member

    Weidman did specifically say straight after the fight in the ring interview that he has been training to block with his knee. He blocked with his knee, broke a leg and won. Oddly enough that makes him the winner (twice now). Its all a little bit more than luck. To be honest having watched the fight a few more times either Silva is getting worse of Weidman is just very good because Silva didn't look all that in any way.

    I am surprised some of you even think they should have been a fight. Just give Silva the win because he is technically better..... No wait.... how do you prove who is better... Ahh that its have a fight!
  17. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Wait, someone threw a punch at Tom Cruise's head? Man, I've been rooting for the wrong person in that story...

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