I think I remember him saying that he though that Silva was going to throw a teep. Front snap kicks always seem to surprise people. The same with side kicks, people seem to forget that they exist. Also, Maybe Segal is trolling the MA world or maybe he is just lost in his narcissism, but he sure knows how to stay interesting!
Finally got to watch it.. it was great watching Mario Yamazaki stand there and you can hear him thinking "2 mins and no one has thrown anything, God its gonna be another of "those ones".... this is boring as...oh crap!" Theres an angle in the replay you see Mario literally standing there and i'm pretty sure his eyes are already glazed over, till he registers that Vitors KOd on the ground. I would agree Gabe Ruediger getting shinned on the chin was way more spectacular. But I guess it was given due to the fact it was more or less the first struck thrown and to whom it KOd. Also, finding it very difficult to find a decent viewing of Kid Yamamoto's fight. It was streamed but I only saw the first round. I know the result but still want to see it.
Here's silva using the kick in his fight with dan henderson just to lesser effect (pre-segal I believe) segal can cram it. Is he really trying to pass the front kick off as a secret technique????
Nope, from his TKD Instructor years before that I was thinking about this the other day, and you have to appreciate I only get to watch MMA on youtube clips, but is it a freak occurence, is it that Silva is just that good, or is it that many fighters don't train front kick as a big part of their stand up repertoire so aren't looking for it? Mitch
Apparently Bas agrees with your assessment. Cheers! http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/ca...t=AmAOvqsRWbHOPYHIQtc2n_U9Eo14?urn=mma-318430
Intesting clip on that link. I personally felt like the 'training' segal was providing looked pretty crappy. Interesting that this was for the sonnen fight... and that, that fight was the worst performance from silva I've ever seen (I know about the rib and the pe's and chael's obvious skill but I'm just saying). oh and for anyone impressed by that trick at 4:13... sort your head out. He knows exactly what's coming and sets his own timing... it's a trick. Gene lebell should have never let go.:hat:
ahahhaha... crap has it already com to pre-Segal and post-Segal? nee..ed... to... tak..e a... showe..r fee.ling... di...rty... Ok just watched that clip on the Yahoo site. Bas Rutten is hilarious about Steven Segal. Any fight any day of the week my money is on Rutten over Segal easy. Christ Segal may have been good back in the day... but.. 1) He harps on being 'the first westerner' to teach martial arts in Japan - who gives a fudge. seriously. 2) entry? timing? ummm... did anyone see that entry he tried to pull of in that vid? DIRE! Like an old man reaching for viagra when late night lingerie commercials come on. Pffft!!! 3) Segal is still wearing those ridiculous range glasses and all black during the normal day. What dork. Total dork. Someone needs to tell Segal he's not a ninja, not a narc officer, not NYPD SWAT. He's LARPING hard here. 4) He is socially retarded. He's squinty. He is self important. Did I mention he's squinty? 5) and I quote: "use da punching, moving... punching moving" seriously... Segal invented punching and moving eh? pfffffft This list can go on and on... Christ what a maroon he is. I don't doubt for a single second that Hollywood holds some sway over the imagination of Silva. His chance to be associated with a legendary uh... tuff guy... that Segal tries on for size is a very enticing to him. Man how sad. Where is Judo Gene LeBell when you need him.
Ok Killa Gorillas gave you the short to the point version... I will give you the long winded version that says essentially the same thing. Silva would have known about that kick and no doubt trained it some extent. It's not exactly thrown like that in Muay Thai as nak muays tend to favor the teep or a front snap kick. The way Silva threw it means it has all the speed of a front snap kick chambered from the knee... and it's backed up by the hip and has the long arc of travel to build a huge amount power being that it's the rear foot he threw. In terms of range... much like the kick that he threw in the Hendo fight... it's harder for him to be countered at that range by a punch/sweep/kick simply because he has long legs and the shot is thrown from the outside. The deceptiveness in the kick is similar to when a knife fighter keeps his knife close to his body not giving his opponent of an idea of the range at which he can stike (God did I just write that!?) :hat: The other deceptive bit of the front snap as opposed to the teep is that in the teep its a bit easier perhaps to judge the trajectory and attempt an evasion or counter... the chambering and the snap on the kick that Silva threw make it much harder as you don't know until the last minute. If you are a die-hard Muay Thai fan you'll know that teeps rarely result in KO's. Not even when they catch the guy clear in the face and bend his head back pass his ass. I know I've been teeped square on and only went bendy and then came right back up and didn't even remember it till a week later when watching the DVD - which I think is up in vid form here at MAP. Seriously it's a different bag of tricks. So like I've said all along had Silva thrown a proper teep a la Muay Thai... no way it would have KO'd his man. I was working just such a kick - set up like a rear leg teep but with more chamber and snap just right before this fight. Seriously. Gah! Segal stole my move. I swear to God. I don't know how but he did. Then Silva uses it and gets all the fame. WTF. I'm totally not amused by that.:cry: and lastly... I think (I keep threatening that don't I)... that Silva has got his head in the clouds a bit as far as Segal goes. He won't have been immune to watching action films growing up in Brazil. Definitely one of the macho latin cultures... so Segal and his films will loom large in his imagination. What does he have to lose by being associated with Segal nothing. It's like a boyhood dream come true. So it's not as if Silva by being a top notch fighter is infallible. Not at all. I'm happy for him on that level that he gets to hob **** with the celebrities of Hollywood. Ok... well at least the cheezy b-film, squinty, fat, moves-like-ya-momma, thinks he's Buddha, wears range shooting glasses all day Segal. :bang:
"...but is it a freak occurence, is it that Silva is just that good, or is it that many fighters don't train front kick as a big part of their stand up repertoire so aren't looking for it?" To address this in three parts: A) Front kick KO's in general seem to be rare. However, that particular kick had more of an upward snap rather than the more common push (more of that in part C, though I think Slip has covered that bit already), and I think that trejectory had an effect on the odds of a knockout. It's my purely unscientific observation, but it seems to me that strikes that travel upward to the chin have a higher chance of causing a knockout. B) Silva is by his own admittion the kind of guy that likes to do things you only see in movies. Plus, he's very accurate and, when he's on, hits like his bones are coated with Adamantium. So I think a big part of that KO is just Silva being Silva. C) Most MMA striking is heavily influenced by either Western or Thai boxing. Obviously for kicks, we look to the latter. The front kick, therefore, is used more as a push to the body. Of the MMA instructionals I have, some don't cover kicking at all, and those that do have a distinct Thai flavor. I'm sure everyone but Silva thought he was going for the typical teep-style thrust to the body when he started that kick. But in the overall MMA "curriculum," and I hate to generalize, kicks are generally given a lower priority than most other skills/weapons, unless the particular fighter has a background in a kicking system, and the round kick shows up much more often than any other kick. So when a fighter, like Tim Boetch, starts using front kicks on you, even the more common teep-style, it's a bit unusual. The East Asian snapping front kick is a rare animal, and there'd be little reason for a typical fighter to be expecting it. Incidentally, this kick (Silva on Belfort) and a few others, in addition to my pretty solid karate background, has got me experimenting with different kinds of kicks more often in sparring. I've landed two ax kicks in as many weeks. But one of the tomes that's influencing some of my practice is "The Essential Book of Martial Arts Kicks" just because it's so thorough. I think his "self defense" applications are a bit fanciful, but as a referrence, one could do worse. So, um, I guess my point is that if anyone wants to open up their kicking arsenal, that would be a good place to start.
he might have been the first and only westerner to teach in japan, but from what i heard he married into that spot and didnt get it through merit Silva is that good he can afford to play around with stuff, he is also that bored with fighting by the looks of things that he wants to try other stuff out And that training clips was, the ground work had no control, the take down at the end (when he did the double palm strick) was so half hearted and so high it was silly, and anyone can make that stand up stuff look good if you know what the attack is thats coming in, would love to see him pull that off in a real fight
So I read this thread and all I can think is what a lot of Keyboard Warriors bad mouthing someone that they have never even trained with. Why bother? If you don't like someone fine, but an uninformed opinion is just that, an uninformed opinion.
People are criticising him on the basis of the interview he gave, the training video posted here and their previous exposure to his behaviour/claims etc. Instead of resorting to the tired old internet meme of calling people with stongly held critical views 'keyboard warriors' - which is really just an empty semantic - why don't you offer your own opinion? Why are the criticisms of him and his claims/attitude in relation to that kick unjustified? Also you don't have to have trained will Segal to have an opinion on his statements or to have an opinion on the training displayed in the clip. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
Hi 'Killa', I'm not sure that I agree that your "'keyboard warriors' - which is really just an empty semantic" point but anyway... Let's see... If we are talking at the point of wearing 'yellow glasses' then that's great if you are a 17 year old member of the Style Police - I'm not If we are talking about his technical proficiency then based on the video that 'Snoop' posted - it looked pretty good. My argument is still that video RARELY shows the whole story and you need to train with someone to see what they have to offer. If we are talking about him being overweight - heck I have trained with skinny, medium, fat and even obese instructors who were VERY good at what they did and (more importantly) VERY VERY good instructors. If we are talking about his spiritual or religious beliefs - well as long as he is not a member of the 'North Eastern Baby Eating Crocodile Worshippers' then that's strictly his business. If we are talking about his 'tough guy' persona - then do we also hate John Wayne, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc, etc... Personally I don't mind someone being a 'tough guy' as long as they are on my side If we are talking about his acting skills - they are WAYYYYY better than mine (and I suspect everyone else here on MAP) so there is no argument from me there... If we are talking about things that he did in the past .... well heck there are things that even * I * have done that I wouldn't be proud to reflect back on - surely it's what we do TODAY that matters. It just seems to me that being a 'martial artist' OUGHT to include good manners and some of the posts certainly didn't show that...
You've got to be kidding me.... lol... that pretty well leaves it to me that your talking about. While I do believe that Segal's Aikido is good and he is more than proficient in that style... his entire public persona is pants. Beyond pants. It's so cringe worthy it's become something of a pop culture joke. Fact. But seriously... let me address the points that you brought up and see where my opinion lays... I mean God forbid I mince words or mutter under my breath. Or if you are an observant person that can take a look how someone has attempted to manicure their public image to fit the whole toughguy persona that he tries to portray in his films. On a very real level yes I find it highly ridiculous when people where tactical gear as everyday wear. That goes for SWAT gear, commando vests and fatigues as a whole ensemble, webbing belts in full military bloom and yes... glasses for the shooting range. Not really much of a point because I don't think anyone has come on saying he's not a worthy Aikidoka.... in fact I've said it before at MAP that as far as his technical proficiency in Aikido he does have a good reputation in spite of his public persona. As for the video of him showing Silva some stuff - he looks overweight and his entry looks slow, loafing and just flat out bad. Yes it's a video and we don't know the background or what happened every minute of the trainings session... but then I haven't pointed the finger about anything we don't know about... just what we do see in the vid. Which isn't all that impressive. I reckon if it was just Joe Blogs showing Silva that and it wasn't all wrapped up in Segal glitz and persona that half of MAP would be in here ripping it. I'm sure there are fat and out of shape instructors out there... there are also those that carry a fair amount of weight that insanely strong, explosive and powerful. Segal may be one of those... but he doesn't come off that way in the vid. Again if you didn't know it was Segal you wouldn't be trying to use this minor point as some form of argument. Oh no it's not. Not when he practically parades it in public. Sorry but he's fair game as anyone is. Funny... he's got the same schtick as Dionn Warwick and yet everyone will take the **** out of the Psychic Friend Network... yet somehow Segal is immune to this? Pfffft.... same hustle... same charlatanism... different bag. I'm not a huge John Wayne fan... and Schwarzenegger couldn't act his way out of a paper bag on a good day. ROTFLMAO!!! That's he's a pop culture icon isn't tantamount to him being able to act. That's like saying the dialogue in Rambo is the highest thespian endeavor just because it's slurred out by Sylvester Stallone. Segal's tough guy rigamarole is cardboard. See above. Squinting doesn't count. Again... who is arguing that it's not? Pfftt... Oh that's right... I don't hold to some inane ideal as a martial artist that comes with a code book of how to act in mixed company or high society... puhleeze.:bang: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw41SysnHmE"]YouTube - Mad Tv- Steven Segal- Dalai Lama[/ame]
