Turtle

Discussion in 'MMA' started by dredleviathan, May 22, 2003.

  1. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    Hi there,

    Just wanted some sugestions from the grapplers amongst you. I've been doing quite a bit a sub grappling/vale tudo work recently and its progressing slowly but surely. Kinda like erosion...

    Anyway I come up against one position all the time which I just find hard to get anything off... the turtle. I use it myself occassionally and it seems a legitimate defensive position but it sort of leaves the game stagnant. SO I wondered how do I attack someone in the turtle position? I'b be interested in techniques to get other control positions with which I am more familiar (i.e. side control, scarf, mount etc) and any submissions straight off the turtle.

    I find it hard to get my head around some of the written descriptions so as much detail as possible would be cool... (I'm grappling dyslexic)!

    Cheers,

    Dred
     
  2. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Ok - here are a few quick suggestions...

    1. Stand up & stomp his ass :D

    2. If that's not allowed and you can't get hooks in to go for a choke you may need to turn him over...

    From the side - (assuming at his left side)

    i. Near leg / far arm i.e. grab around his right upper arm with your left hand and grab his left ankle with your right hand. Lift, pull towards you & drive him over - you should land in cross-body on him.

    ii. Ankle roll - kneel on his left ankle so that it pushes it to the floor away from you. He'll pop right over - be careful as this is a nasty one :Angel:

    .... Or go for a submision like...

    iii. Calf crush - if you have room slide your left leg between his thigh & arm then down between his thighs & over his left calf. Pick up his left foot with both hands & fall back pulling on his foot and levering his calf over your left shin - ouch!

    There are lots of rolling armbars from here also - I haven't time go go into them at the moment.

    At the front

    The basic is to insert your right arm under his left arm & onto his back - step up with your left foot and lever him over to your left.
     
  3. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    Ooh, this position has some nice subs available! :)

    Assuming you're on the guy's left hand side, you want your right knee in under the guy's stomach and up close & tight to his knee with your right arm across the guy's lower back, your left foot posted out and your weight down on top of his back with your left arm across the back of his neck - push down with both arms.

    You can set up for a shoulder lock or a crucifix here - providing you can get his left arm with your left foot.

    Bring your foot over the side of his arm so your foot is on the right hand side of his right arm and bring his arm back and triangle it off with your legs. Underhook his right shoulder with your right arm & secure it nice and tight, post out with your left hand, put your head on the mat near his head and roll over!

    Overhook your right arm over his, reach around his head, join hands with your left one up near the top of his head, then pull down slowly! :D

    This is the position you should end up in, http://home.kooee.com.au/schonberger/mma/neckCrankFromCrucifix.jpg

    I almost pulled it off last night! As I rolled over into the crucifix, I let go of his arm with my legs and he escaped. :(
     
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Nice one Bon- this sounds like the set up for the rolling armbars I was talking about.
     
  5. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    Ah, I have done a rolling armbar or two from here, not very comfortable with it though. Think I have it written down somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
     
  6. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    These are my notes:

    Basic rolling armbar - we've got one hook in (our right hook) and the guy won't let us get our second hook in. We walk our hands around to 3 'o clock, underhook their right shoulder with our right hand, bring our shin to the back of their neck and roll over, then bring our left leg over in front of their face so our calf is in their face, squeeze our knees together, controlling the thumb and bring our hips up - basic armbar.

    Rolling armbar - got one hook again, walk our hand around to get 3 'o clock again. This time, the guy's posted his right leg up, so we underhook his right shoulder with our left arm and bring it all the way through so we can grip our own leg while simultanously bringing our knee over the guy's neck and pushing it down on the floor. We wait for him to stand up, grip his pants, and bring the back of our calf in front of his face and push, while pulling his leg up.

    All techniques have two beats to them, or as J-J Machado says, jiu jitsu requires patience... We do this bit of the technique, wait for guy's reactions, even if it's just half a beat, then we do the second bit of the technique. Some more advanced techniques have 3 beats to them, do bit 1, wait for the guy's reaction, do bit 2, wait for the guy's reaction, then we do the next bit of the technique.

    Rolling armbar from the mount - guy puts his hands up in an attempt to push you off. If you don't need to post, go for the basic armbar, but if you need to post, post and let him come up onto his knees, underhook his right arm with our left, put the back of our calf in front of his face, wait for him to stand up and execute the rolling armbar as above.
     
  7. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Yep - those are they :D
     
  8. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    Thanks guys! I shall be having fun on Saturday morning believe me!

    I'm looking a writing down (and of course practicing) some loop drills which start in a control position and then finish in the same positon but you are reversed (i.e the one pinning ends up pinned). I think it will really help me in finding the different submissions plus work my offensive/defensive positioning. Levos tapes have been a real help!

    Again thanks alot.

    Dred

    P.S. Bon was that you on the receiving end in the photo?
     
  9. Joe karate

    Joe karate New Member

    What's the turtle position??
     
  10. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Think doggy style without the reacharound.:)
     
  11. Jay

    Jay New Member

  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Links don't work at the moment- even if you try to post just the link it screws it up.

    Try cuting & pasting this....

    PHP:
    http://www.subfighter.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=10
     
  13. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    dredleviathan, lol, yeah.. :D
     
  14. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Joe, He's on his hands and knees tucked up tight in a defensive posture.

    Other options, you can also work a triangle out of this, you need to get grab your own leg with the opposite side hand so that you got an arm and his head trapped and roll off.

    Example, right foot by his right shoulder, grab under his left arm with your left arm and roll back.

    Crucifix can be done a couple of ways.

    Rolling arm bars are good.

    So is trying to dig in hooks and choke him.

    You can sometimes just force him over with your head. Grab opposite side arm and leg and drive your head into his ribs while pulling. I don't like that one much, but it can work for some people.

    Get to the front and knee him in the head is good too :D

    Basically you need to flip him or submit him.

    Lock onto something and roll with it, experiment with it and see what you can make work...

    And don't forget about your legs
     
  15. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    Jay, nice link! That was the shoulder lock I was talking about.. didn't realise it was called an omoplata or is it umaplata?
     
  16. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Here is a good Sombo one

    Used in most I guess - if you use belts grab the back of the belt and stand up this will raise him up, suprising as you can get bigger guys up. (need to be standing over him) one foot on either side.

    When he is up, push your feet under his and drive forward, opens for a rear choke very well as you have time to get in through his turtle guard as your heels go to his fleshy hip/groin area and will wake him up.

    It works really well.

    SONSHU
     

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