trying to lose weight.

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by 8limbs38112, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

  2. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    ero: i think there was a nutritionist that did a similar thing, except only ate things he could find at a convenience mart, and still lost weight. things like chips, onion rings, candy. surely, not a healthy way to live, but possible to lose weight when watching calories.

    and yes, until i started actually counting calories and measuring food, i had no idea how much to eat. it's actually amazing to see how much less food is necessary than what advertising tells us to eat. when i started listening to my body i realized i was eating well past having a full feeling too, only because i thought the amount i was eating seemed right.
     
  3. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Nutrition is a funny subject when it comes to weight loss goals. I'm sure both the McDonalds man and the 7/11 nutritionist wouldn't feel wonderful doing any kind of regimented training. I know when I was boxing I had to change my diet to feel good during physical activity and training, having pizza or fried chicken just didn't cut it and made me feel like crap. I could still DO the workouts, but I felt like running through mud and molasses during it. Same thing applied while I was in the military although quality of food isn't something you can choose all the time. Better to feel crappy than have yourself dehydrate quicker, feel extremely grumpy, and be more prone to environmental injuries (heat stroke for example). Energy is energy, you can run on Diesel, Regular, or Supreme though. :p
     
  4. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member

    Yep pretty much going round in circles now.

    I'm not disputing that simply eating a balanced diet is effective, hell I did the whole 6 small meals a day for over 10 years.

    What I'm saying is that IF makes it easier to eat less. Ignore the claims that fasting is good for various hormones etc and that constant eating contributes to insulin resistance, the simple fact is by reducing the amount of time you allow yourself to eat each day results in less calories consumed which we all agree is a good thing.

    IF is a viable option, why not try it before you dismiss it?

    I've had better/easier results than i have for years.

    15th Jan 2013 I went from 76.8kg at 11.2% body fat to
    17th Feb 2013 I was 78.7kg at 10.2% body fat.

    2kg of muscle while losing fat in 1 month for someone that has trained for years is pretty damn good.
     
  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i have never said anything about constant eating. i've also never said anything about eating many small meals. i'm saying, eat the right stuff, when you're hungry. i actually have gone quite a long time without eating because i wasn't hungry.

    and i don't have a problem with people saying if works, for them. fine. i think the claims that if is better than just healthy eating are specious.
     
  6. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member


    Would you give it a try yourself? Just to see if it is better?
     
  7. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    of course i would be willing to give it a try. i've actually been strongly considering it because of this thread. am looking into ways to get started. i have a goal to lose 10 pounds for an upcoming bjj comp.
     
  8. righty

    righty Valued Member

    While there are some good points in that article it is extremely lacking in others areas. Rebuttal to point #2 was particularly bad where he doesn't link to any article or even comment on the main point, which was the lack of women in studies. The lack of women in studies is simply something difficult from a scientific perspective and when the smaller number of studies including females suggest women may not have the same results as men, you must then take any results from studies containing just men with that in mind.

    But the main kicker for me was when the author pretty must accused the author of the initial article of having a feminist agenda. For something that supposedly started off as a scientic based article it has absolutely no place.

    I disagree because you said this...
    "I only cited the first few papers referring to fasted training that Google Scholar gave me."
    That sounds like you did a search and simply posted the top results.

    Using the common 16:8 protocol plus very heavy training.

    I'm not saying that IF is evil for women but simply something that one should be aware of. And simply saying things like this ...

    is short sighted and closed minded.

    This is absurd.

    You are pretty much saying that people commented here have not tried it. This is false.

    Is the OP wants to try it, then they are free to give it a go. But certainly filling the thread solely with personal anecdotal evidence won't avoid a circular discussion as you say is happening.

    IF is simply one tool in a toolbox. If it works for you and your goals, great. But understand that for others another tool may be work better for their goals.
     
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    interestingly, when looking into how to get started...i looked up the 5:2 diet for weight loss....

    the nhs basically says it's baloney compared to just calorie reduction. or how us italian wannabe's say: bologna. oh they couch it in scientific talk: lack of studies, small sample sizes, short follow-up periods in studies, disputed other benefits like cognitive benefits. just saying.

    but hey, it works for some people.
     
  10. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member


    This is the best resource i have found so far......there is a LOT of info in there but he does have some easier to follow general guidelines if you don't want to get too bogged down with the technicalities.

    http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/08/leangains-intermittent-fasting-guide-how-to-do-it-by-yourself/
     
  11. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member

    A lot of people commenting here have not tried IF for a significant period of time, how is that false?
     
  12. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Who are the people who specifically said they have not tried it?
     
  13. RaKzaroK

    RaKzaroK Valued Member

    I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

    You have been training for years, so you can't have newbie gains -even if you were a newbie, 2 kg of (pure) muscle mass in a month is pretty much fantasy-.

    Anyway, 2 kg of muscle mass WHILE losing fat and all of this in a month, nah, seems impossible, at least in my opinion, experience and studying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    This will probably be my last post in this thread. I think I've done all I can to espouse the benefits of IF. We're basically arguing petty details now and I don't have the time to do a proper scientific breakdown which no one will bother reading.

    But thanks for the discussion.

    There have been studies (I know Krista Varady has one or two papers) dealing just with women. There is undoubtedly a bias towards men, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been sufficient work to draw conclusions
    Then ignore that part of the article. His editorialising doesn't change the science one little bit.

    Yeah, but I checked the abstracts first. Give me some credit.
    I would love to know what they were eating, because I couldn't ingest 5000+ calories in 8 hours in a way that was remotely sensible.

    I think most of the people who are vehemently against it haven't done it for a month.

    And it's not short sighted, it's based on my experience, the experience of the people who recommended it to me, the people I have recommended it to and the hundreds of people on the internet who have had their lives transformed by it.
     
  15. Ros Montgomery

    Ros Montgomery Valued Member

    Not sure I noticed anyone here vehemently against it. it seems there is a consensus that there needs to be a reduction in calorie intake to lose weight.

    IF fans say this is the easiest way to do it because I said so, my friends said so and the internet said so.

    General calorie reduction fans say this is the easiest way to do it because I said so, my friends said so and most advisory bodies said so.

    Ultimately, it doesn't matter, really. Eat healthily and reduce your calorie intake; if IF makes that easier, then great (you're all mental, but great :)); if calorie reduction makes that easier, then great (I lost six stones this way, so it must be the right way :D).
     
  16. proteinnerd

    proteinnerd Valued Member

    Well I'm reading it directly off my body composition table and graph that i recorded weekly at the time, yes I'm that anal particularly when trying new program/diets to see if they work.

    If you don't want to believe it, no skin off my back, although I'm not sure why you think I would have any motivation to actually lie about it. It was a significant change in both eating and training protocols for me at the time.....my body obviously responded very well. This is the reason I am so "pro" IF, I had such great results.

    The gains have slowed significantly since then and I've only gained another 2 kg while keeping body fat at the same level in a year since then.....but then again, I've reduced the calories to maintenance so its what I'd expect, I don't really like being over 80kg.
     
  17. ludde

    ludde Valued Member

    Just want to jump on board and add my opinion. Another fasting nerd here.

    For me, fasting and skipping meals was an absurd idea two years back. In the same way that others I discuss the subject with react. The reaction is comparable with a gasp. Not eating every fourth hour is so ingrained in people. I do agree that fasting is just one tool of many. It doesn’t matter how, just have a calorie deficit.

    The point I think that the fasting fans wants to remove is the idea that fasting is dangerous, or that you will loos muscle mass, or that your body will stop digesting or what ever. (Not talking about stop eating for months on end.) They want the fasting approach to be another valid way towards getting healthier. The scientific findings on other beneficial health aspects that have been discussed here is of course a valid point, but I think it is outside the scope for the average chubby person that just wants to get slimmer. The findings though is interesting.

    Over a period of half a year I lost about 15kg. Overall to this day I have lost 19 kg.
    I skipped breakfast, lunch, and late night meal 2-3 days a week. Indulged some in weekends. Some weeks I was not able to follow this, but as long as you have a calorie deficit throughout, it does not matter. Maintaining? Easy. Birthday and cake, a night out with the boys and drinking beer, on the road and indulging at mc? The day after skip breakfast, a light lunch and dinner, skip late night meal and your done. You want a pizza, do it. Or god forbid pasta, do it.
    Fasting worked for me, it is super easy, you don’t have to prepare food and have your fridge updated on healthy food all the time or bring it with you all the time. I saved money and still do. I save time and still do. I was able to do more at work and still do. I can sit and watch a movie and loos weight at the same time. Counting calorie, easy, zero. Figure out your ideal weight, figure out your daily income of calorie, multiply by seven. Now you have the number of calories you need to maintain your ideal weight in a week.
    If you eat every fourth hour you will get hungry skipping that meal because your body is used to it. If you are overweight though you don't need that meal, and it is surprisingly easy to fast if you get your body used to it. The fat that the body stores around on your body is there for bad days. In the western world the bad days wont come if you don't force it.

    Edit: Oh by the way, do take a look on that Horizon show.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  18. righty

    righty Valued Member

    What measurements did you take to base those body composition calculations of?

    Just for the record I'm not vehemently against IF but I am against people saying there is a best way to lose weight in addition to adjusting cals and macros.

    And yes I tried it for a month.

    Brb gotta go take my lemon water cleanse.
     
  19. ludde

    ludde Valued Member

  20. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    proteinnerd - there are physiological limits that dont allow a person to gain over 2 kg of muscle mass in a month and decrease bodyfat that drastically so your measures are probably flawed.

    it's on par with poliquin's "dominican mangos" rubbish
     

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