Training ideas for the overwhelmed or discouraged beginner

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by goatnipples2002, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    I am not a master of any kind or do I have many years of MA. I do have tons of experience in close quarters fighting and multiple attacker situations.
    I am 220% against sport fighting and groundfighting. They are the not very effective types of self defence in street/prison fights and multiple attacker situations.
    If you are a ring fighter or are trying to study for show purposes then this is not for you. I won't give you any specifis training schedule just some techniques and a book to look at, and maybe a theory or 2.

    1. For techs I would suggest the basics like.....
    Vertical & Horizontal Elbows
    Low Lead & Round Kicks (never kick above the waist, unless your enemy is kneeling)
    If you like...Headbutts (I like)
    Kali Footwork (Male & Female Triangles)
    Iron Cross push ups

    2. As for drills.....
    Hubud Lubud Drills (From beginner to master we all need them to develop our skills and flow)

    Also put your back to a wall and hve someone throw strikes at you and block/parry them so you can become used to puches coming your way.

    3. As for intermediate/advanced techs.....
    Chin na techniques (Follow the K.I.S.S. theory)
    One knuckle punch (Condition properly)

    If you go by this "outline" you should be well on your way through the path of efficient and effective self defence. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. IT WON'T HAPPEN OVER NIGHT.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2003
  2. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    *bites troll bait, swims away*

    If you aren't an expert, with few years of training, why do you feel qualified to dole out advice?

    Could this lack of training possibly be the reason you are "220% against sport fighting and groundfighting"? Because a newbie can't hang with the big boys?

    How did you become a multiple attacker and prison fight expert when you don't even know how to fight one attacker properly? Might you be putting the cart before the horse?

    You said yourself, practice makes perfect, it won't happen overnight. Call back in a few more years.
  3. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Thank you goat nipps, I will become the master in your deadly art of *insert bada$$ name here* ;)

  4. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    And if these are tips for the beginner, why recommend "iron cross pushups"? Whatever happened to your "Keep It Simple, Stupid" methodology?

    P.S. If you are all about the multiple attacker situations, why are most of the above techniques used most effectively from the clinch?
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2003
  5. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    Let me clarify myself, I've had a day or 2 to gather some thoughts. The techniques I posted can be used in the clinch yet I don't use them in the clinch, I use them when my attacker is in range of that specific weapon.

    I am against sport fighting but you need to know a certain degree of groundfighting in case you go to the ground, that way you can defend yourself properly. The reaon I am against sport fighting is because in sport you can't use nerve attacks, bite and your state of mind is somewhat tainted because you have to water your defense down to a certain degree.

    The reason I have experience in multipler attacker situations and prison fights is because I 've been in both. I have been in alot of fights because I used to "set trip". I'm not proud of going to prison but hey **** happens. I was there for 3 years, from 18 -21.

    Upon furth examination of the chin na book it has very few techs I would practice and it is unorginized yet there are some very effective techs in it.

    The reason I stated the basics is because when in a fight you seldom stray away from the basics which are punch, kick, knee, elbow, and headbutts.

    I don't care if you apply what I say just tryin to help.

    No matter where you are in your training EVERYBODY NEEDS iron cross pushups!
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2003
  6. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Alright. You stated these are tips for an overwhelmed or discouraged beginner. Would you recommend a BEGINNER forget sport fighting and skip straight to streetfighting?
  7. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    No I would say full contact sparring is your best bet. The reason I don't like sport is because it isn't REAL. In the sense that you have protection on. In real fights your body is your protection. Pads in the ring build a false sense of security. There is a big difference between hittin someone with gloves and bare knuckle. Your wrist and hand NEED to be in a whole nuther position. I am from the streets so I see what it takes to survive yet that same survival instinct isn't always present in the ring. It may be there but your opponent isn't trying to do the same thing as a rapist or a robber/murderer, now are they? In the ring you may lose the match if you don't give it your 110% but in the street/prison you could lose WAY more.
  8. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I'd just like to tentatively offer the opinion that sport fighting is a hell of a lot more realistic than mere drills, and that nerve attacks, headbutts, eye gouges, etc. Are probably not the fight-stopping, devastating tactics that you imagine them to be.
    In addition, that iron cross pushups are not the 'magic bullet' training tool that you think they are.
    *feels the bite of the hook in the corner of his mouth*
  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Goatnipples - one again you confirm my thought about you.

    YODA tip of the day: Get your ass to a decent MMA gym and tell them that sport doesn't work on the street and that groundfighting sux. Post your findings when the cast comes off.
  10. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    Those techs won't end a fight you are correct, but it's more than just those techs. It is your state of mind.
    I don't know what nerve attacks you practice but the ones I train with could kill you or cause paralysis, but they also have physical damage that comes along with them. Such as cv22, st 9, co 9&10 just to name a few.
    The hubud Lubud drills are very vital to ANY fighter because they have the ability to teach you how to go from kicking range to trapping/grappling range. Sport is more realistic than drills yet drills and full contact sparring are better because you can incorporate lethal self defence techs. Where as you can not do that in the ring. Most ring fighters don't practice these moves because they can't use them in the ring. I guess what I should have said was if you sport fight incorporate lethal techs in your curriculm for street defence. I don't mean sport fighting's techs are ineffective it's the rules that you must follow, because there are no rules in the streets; and the sport mentality is like a filter.

    NO MATTER WHAT OR HOW YOU TRAIN, YOU WILL FIGHT HOW YOU TRAIN. IF YOU TRAIN FOR THE RING YOU FIGHT LIKE YOUR IN A RING. IF YOU TRAIN FOR THE STREET YOU FIGHT LIKE YOU'RE IN THE STREET! How many sport fighters practice unarmed vs weapon? How many sport fighters practice lethal/bone breaking techs? how many sport fighters train for multiple attacker situations?

    You guys should know this, you guys are the gym masters, I'm just a uke and I know this stuff, come on now.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2003
  11. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    Speaking as a guy who drilled hubud for 15 years...

    Goatnipples - try your hudud lubud drills on a decent wrestler who knows the clinch well. Even the root motion of the standard drill will give the guy your back pretty damned fast.
  12. xubis

    xubis New Member

    Haha YODA, I once told someone I wouldn't be taken to the ground so their grappling wouldn't work.. *whimper* * nurses his elbow*
  13. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    *punches this thread in the stomach 9 point at a downward angle, causing it to cease to be*
  14. Colin Rackliff

    Colin Rackliff New Member

    After 10 years of training (tkd briefly, kyokoshin, & a derivative of the afore mentioned) I (begrudgingly it has 2 be said) changed styles & followed my sensei 2 begin studying goju ryu (3 to 4 yrs ago) a traditional karate style that in my opinion is the best self defence style 4 me.
    B4 that i would not have a word said about my previous style, but now i believe that wot i trained in previously was basicly sport karate, a tough sport karate but never the less sport.
    When i was a fit young man this suited me just fine.
    But as you get older it becomes less and less practical. (just my opinion) Sport is sport & once you can no longer compete where do you go ? wot do you do ? I suppose you can do the kata of your particular style over & over again therefore making it look fantastic, there again you could take up line dancing !
    Or as i have you can study a traditional style & try 2 unlock the true meaning of kata with regards to fighting, this is something that takes years & years of dedicated study (not training, study)even then you have to find a sensei that has taken the time & effort that it takes to open ones eyes(i do a 120 mile round trip at least once a week 2 be corrected by my sensei), wot you see in a kata is not wot it seems.
    Traditional kata (not some rubbish that can be done 2 music in order 2 win gold) contains devastating techniques if you take the time 2 discover them.
    This is why i feel that REAL karate is the best form of self defence (4 me anyway)
    ps sorry wot was the question
  15. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Well would you look at that. I attacked this thread in a deadly pressure point, and it is STILL ALIVE.:D
  16. ns_oni

    ns_oni Valued Member

    i believe if you're fast enough you should kick above the waisy..
  17. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    The risk is not worth the pay off if you kick above the waist. That's just my opinion.
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Argue for your limitations and sure enough- they are yours.
  19. goatnipples2002

    goatnipples2002 someone tryin 2 learn

    you are correct, but it's called economy of motion.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2003
  20. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    I think we can all agree doing something is better than doing nothing.

    What I see is that GN wants to train in MA, but can't afford the time or money to go to a school right now. So he is learning whatver he can and trying to put together a plan to use the best of the things he has found. He's trying to express his philosophy of fighting that he has developed though real fights where his life was on the line. That's a perspetive most of us do not have.

    Somebody might have constructuve criticism for his plan, that's the best reason to use a forum like this. But I don't see any reason to flame him, to any of you flamers...

    and I'm not just saying this because we happen to live in the same town. We've never even met.

    OK we did meet once for a second in traffic when he recognized my car (it is distinctive and I had described it to him) and we rolled down our windows and said Hi.

    So if you agree with his expression of his thoughts and his ideas for training, or disagree; the choice to be constructive or to be a d!ckhead is yours to make.

    PS - IMHO high kicks are for sport, low kicks are for hurting.

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