Training aged 50+ cardio nightmare

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by nigelnire, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. nigelnire

    nigelnire Valued Member

    I decided to do JuJitsu as it was something I thought I could do when I was older but am now not sure. I am 50 years old I train hard at the gym twice a week have a muscular physique 13.4 5,9 height ,32 waist . I do weights ,cross trainer , and run on the treadmill for 2-3 miles at 6.5 – 7 miles per hour . Companied to my friends who are in my age group I am very fit. During my Green belt grading my training partner and I were put through an extreme cardio workout involving continuous hip throws to the point where both of us were close to collapsing I was having trouble breathing and having a tightness in my chest. I have had two friends who have died of heart attacks and have a limit I push myself to in the gym and then go no further . At 50 I feel young but know I am not lol I believe JuJitsu should involve good technique and certainly a level of fitness, You should be sweating and tired by the end of a grading and I do not believe you should be handed an easy grading but at 50 I believe intense cardio is a risk I don’t want to take so ive decided to stop grading remain at Green belt level continue to train and go over everything I’ve learnt so that its second nature to me. Again I am fit for my age what im talking about here is not running, a warm up or normal training its extreme cardio aged 50+ any thoughts ? Is this level of Cardio needed or is it just making JuJits a young mans martial art? If I want do do extreme Cardio ill do Iron man triathlon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  2. Shady553

    Shady553 New Member

    At are dojo we have a man that started when he was 58 he is now a black belt at an age of 67 so I think its defiantly not a young man sport.

    But as far as cardio I think your cardio is fine if I read your story but maybe they push harder at your dojo then they do in our dojo.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Get a check up with your GP over the chest pain and talk to your teacher about gradings,
     
  4. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Congrats to your fortitude and keep us informed!
     
  5. hardball

    hardball Valued Member

    Most Sensei make adjustments for age or disabilities. I wouldn't give up my desire for rank/promotions, it's part of the motivation to train. If your sensei doesn't recognize that you are not 25 years old then I would have a talk with him or find a new dojo.
     
  6. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    Agreed Fusen and Hardball, you should be tested with regard to physical ability..age notwithstanding...if they don't understand, really, it's time to move. No use risking health.
     
  7. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Train for the enjoyment...you know your limits...tell instructor if it is too much..if they are any good they should be aware anyway..

    If unhappy move club..
    Smurf:)
     
  8. nigelnire

    nigelnire Valued Member

    Tanks for you advice and encouragement everyone its much appreciated. I was ****ed off but in time I have decided to grade again and will be doing my blue and white grading before Christmas. Fitness wise I’m not bad at all for 50 but still im not 25 so im taking it a belt at a time. My target when I started was Purple so I have Blue then Purple to go for next year. I think I might stop then because im not into the weapon based stuff. Id just go along each week and practice everything I know to really perfect it im a believer in the simple basic uncomplicated moves are best for the street if you were in trouble. My target is to be at a decent level and id hope Purple would be a respectable level to gain for my age ?
     
  9. nigelnire

    nigelnire Valued Member

    Just an update I got my Purple belt and have studied Brown/White but have now decided to just train and not grade further.
    I live in Northern Ireland and they have really increased the focus on Cardio at grading's, One guy I know had to do up to 20 "Back to back" bouts after a grading. Its a thing called "Burn out" where people are often pushed so hard they throw up. A few clubs train like this and throwing up is normal.
    Im all for fitness but im my opinion this is stupid and degrading on the level of making you wet yourself for a start throwing up rots your teeth from stomach acid.
    It very much depends on the Sensei you get at a grading there are some really decent ones ,others have huge egos' get a nasty one and they can give you hell at a grading.
    Nobody should get an easy grading but pushing people to their limits is dangerous and could result in someone having a heart attack on the mats.
    Hope getting a Purple belt at 52 is decent I plan to improve the techniques I know :- )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2015
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your not happy, check out other clubs too.

    Well done on the grade.
     
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    nigelnire, just a reminder that swearing (masked or otherwise) is agaInst the ToS here on MAP.
     
  12. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Those training practices sound incredibly stupid. Are there other clubs, maybe Judo or BJJ, that you can get to?
     
  13. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Like they said ....its for enjoyment not torture...

    Keep on throwing ...50 is the new .......50 !!
     
  14. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Did you ever have any more chest pains after your post two years ago? Did you manage to see a doctor about that?

    You're saying that is generally true for most of the BJJ clubs in Norn Iron or just at your particular club?
     
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    He's not training BJJ, he's doing 'trad' jiujitsu
     
  16. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    My bad.
     
  17. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    Nigelnire

    What is it you train for? Does your club fit that goal?

    Thinking of that is the best thing I can advise, from your OP it doesn't sound like it!!

    I would recommend a more traditional club from what you initially put. Training will be no easier, but will be different, I think more what you were expecting with focus on good technique.

    Endless hip throws doesn't really sound like Japanese Jujutsu to me, more like British Ju Jitsu. From my experience if you find somewhere with a more traditional approach the instructors are usually more concerned with you as an individual and how you develop.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  18. nigelnire

    nigelnire Valued Member

    Thanks for the encouragement and advice folks its much appreciated. I am feeling great ,no more chest pains all's good clean bill of health :).
    I do traditional JuJitsu don't want to name who with but its well known, Re Hip throws yes I was made to do 25 mins non stop at the end of a hard grading in a dojo room with no windows was June probably 25c in it and pushed to the point of collapse, the same visiting sensei at an earlier grading had kids aged around 7-10 in tears. On another occasion he gave a demonstration and choked a 20 year old Purple belt out in a triangle choke until he was almost unconscious and took pleasure in giving us dead legs.
    My own Sensei is excellent and I really enjoy training at my club but grading's have been a different experience. Some sensei's have been very fair and they have my total respect but I have found some to be nothing more than Bullies with huge egos.
    The problem is not knowing what your up against physically, how many back to backs there will be at the end of the grading could be 3 could be 20 like a guy I know had to do but if a sensei is into burn out as many of them are you will be pushed to your absolute limit ,One guy threw up and was laughed at, to me this is degrading . Let me repeat not all sensei's are like this most are ok .
    Pushing people to their max is very dangerous over 50 not a risk im going to take. I do believe you should be fit to grade, I can run 3 miles in about 27-28 mins 1% incline so im not on a Zimmer yet lol
    I would rather be an excellent Purple belt than be a mediocre Black belt like some are so am happy to continue training hard, would have liked to have got my Black belt and would have been happy to go for it elsewhere in the UK but sadly have no other options where I am.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I reckon the sign of a good grading is when a student has been pushed to their personal limits but not more and not stupidly. Either that or they have to be allowed to fail a set task but still succeed through spirit.

    For example I once watched an Enshin grading where a student in his 50s endured multiple bouts of knockdown sparing against increasingly higher grades. I watched the sensei make sure the opponents the student faced always pushed him to the point where he could give up, but he didn't. I watched him almost drag himself up from the floor and continue to fight. They were younger and fitter, and by round ten might have been able to beat him, but it was kept at just the right level.

    That's a good grading.

    I've seen students give their absolute all to something, like breaking boards. Even if they didn't succeed in the break, they showed exemplary attitude, so might pass if the rest of their grading was good.

    Setting arbitrary tasks for everyone doesn't sound like a good examination process to me.

    Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  20. nigelnire

    nigelnire Valued Member

    I guess the level of fitness required depends upon the style,for example high kicking if your 65 your not going to do a great tornado kick lol
    You should be fit enough to do the warm up and techniques. I was told the extreme fitness is needed to simulate being under pressure in a street situation, what rubbish !!
    I have been attacked "attempted mugging"on the street over 20 years ago it was over in about 20 seconds thankfully I came out on top as i was into Taekwondo back then.
    We do not kick above the solar plexus all the moves could be performed by someone 60+ when the focus goes to fitness it becomes a Jujitsu and Cardio grading and becomes a young mans martial art.
     

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