Traditional Punch and Boxing Punch

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Alexander, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    crap- tameshiwara/breaking is not the sole preserve of karate and I have seen CMA guys break stuff that is really mind boggling
  2. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    You seem to miss the point slightly, did i say the exact words of ''tameshiwara/breaking IS the sole preserve of karate''

    The ANSWER = NO, i didn't, most MA's practise breaking

    And yes i understand, completely recognise that there are LOADS of CMA guys that break stuff that is really ''mind boggling'' :)

    The point i was making is that the champions of breaking are karateka's!

    It would be the same if i said that Japan were the best technologicaly, sure i understand that britain and america have great technology but when it comes down to it JAPAN ARE THE BEST, and just incase you missed the point...

    Japan are the Techno leaders, yer sure there are others like america and britain but JAPAN ARE THE BEST IN THE FEILD!!

    Karateka are the best when it comes to breaking ''yer sure there are others'' like Mixed MAtist, Boxers but KARATEKA ARE BEST IN THE FEILD!

    NOW do you see the point :D
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I never missed the point my young, impetuous friend!

    I was saying that there are CMA guys who make the Karateka look amateur.

    The only reason they are the champions is because few other styles (save TKD possibly) actually bother to compete in it.

    And I think you'll find that the vast majority of arts DON'T practiec breaking because it is by and large a party-trick and worth naff all!

    NOW do you see MY point! ;-)
  4. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    And i noticed you used the word Tameshiwara, ask someone wat tameshiwara is and yer sure they will say breaking, but in word asociation the first thing that pops in your mind is KARATE when you mention TAMESHIWARA,
    the words are both japanese and you said

    '' have seen CMA guys break stuff '' Yes your right CMA guys break ''stuff'' (nice choice of word) , the key word being = break.

    When a karateka breaks ''stuff'' he doesn't just go do it for a ''mind boggling'' show, to him its an art, aka '' Tameshiwara ''

    AND that my friend is what seperates some random CMA ''guy''
    To a foucused, experiance, trained ''karateka'' !

  5. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    And about me mentioning that ITS TAmeshiwara, not breakin'
    And its not a ''large a party-trick and worth naff all!''
    That is just a phylostine opinion, that's like me saying football is boring because all you do is kick a ball :D

    now do YOU SEE MY POINT :D
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    err...You really have missed the point. Could be my phrasing - I'll try again!

    I used the term tameshiwara because we are within the context of a Japanese art. Point taken though, I will say "breaking" from now on. And what is ice, concrete, wood etc if not "stuff" - I am sure as hell not typing every breaking material out just to keep an adolescent happy!

    To say "they are the best in it" is wrong! They are good, sure, but others are of equal or greater skill who are NOT Karateka. I have seen Robert Busey do some fantastic breaks and he is a Taijutsu guy

    By what standards are the Kareteka "the best"?

    And breaking is still of limited - or in my opinion "no" - use in real-life
  7. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    breaking obviously shows good timing, technique and power, but being able to do it really isn't the be all and end all, in real life if you can punch hard enough to break ribs then thats plenty.
  8. Yatezy

    Yatezy One bad mamba jamba

    Are you serious? Please tell me your not!

    What a load of crap, mate that was really silly.

    As ive never done karate i cant comment on the breaking but the way its going its turning into a style vs style. Its opinions, one person is saying karate is best, one is saying another is best! Who cares ive seen shoalin monks bust metal on their heads, TKD people break boards, karate people break cement locks, Jean Claude van Damme break the bottom brick in the whole lot without any damage to the rest! :D
  9. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    My distant relative tommy far was a bare fist boxer and always taught to punch with the first two nuckles
  10. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    Wrong! You should always be relaxed in body and mind but alert also
  11. kyokutsuki

    kyokutsuki Valued Member

    Well if you were captured by SAW and you had to break a certain object within a time limit with your hands and there was no hammer in the room you'd be in trouble mister :D
  12. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    But it is! :D :D
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You say that mentioning good timing is silly, then you say you've never done karate, so you have no idea what I mean by good timing.

    Now that is silly.
  14. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    Actually looking back on this post now, I don't actually understand what you mean by good timing holyhead.
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Do you understand kime?

    a good karate punch is totally loose until the point of impact, that requires timing. If you throw a punch with your body tense then you wont generate enough speed.
  16. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    Yeah, I suppose for breaking you should be relaxed, but not whilst you're sparring or fighting.
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Quite the contrary I would suggest!
  18. GojuKJoe

    GojuKJoe Valued Member

    Even IF karateka were the best at breaking, what does that matter? It's not about how "powerful" the punch is, it's about how effective it is in combat. Boxers spend their entire technique training time working on getting good punches, so naturally, they are normally better at it than most other fighting styles.

    Regardless of whether or not they hit harder, on the whole, they are BETTER at it, and that's all that matters. As a martial artist, I want enough power to be able to knock a person out, and I want to have good enough technique to put that power to good use in a fight, any power beyond that is wasted energy, so this quest to have the most powerful punch is fruitless, when by far the better way is to work on tactical technique practise in a fighting situation (i.e. sparring)

    Smashing a huge block of ice may be impressive, but I don't need to be able to smash a block of ice. A human body is not a block of ice, or a plank of wood, or a brick, it's made of flesh and bone, so I'd rather spend my time training ways to attack the body, than waste it training to smash a flat block of ice/wood, whatever.

    Basically, what I'm trying to say is that it's not solely about how powerful a blow is, but rather how well it serves it's purpose, which is to damage a human.

    I believe that boxers are BETTER (not necessarily more powerful) at punching, so I'd rather learn to punch from a great boxer, than from a guy who can break twenty pieces of ice with one punch. The boxer will have been always testing and proving his technique against another person, not against a stationery object.
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yep, I'd go along with that in the main

    If I want to break something I'll use a hammer
  20. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    Alas, you are correct Hannibal, I was thinking about that reply while watching the tv and realised that it wasn't at all right. I think I was trying to say you should be tense when you see an attack coming in but I got my words all muddled and came out with something different all together. Although I have no idea what being tense when an attack is incoming has to do with breaking.....

    .....leave me alone.....I'm tired.

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