Top Two Reasons To Lift Weights. Plain & Simple.

Here's a great article for those that may not have such a domineering command of English as some of the folks 'round here...

http://www.tbkfitness.org/BodyvsFree1.html

 

I don't see your point.

Whether or not your moving metal or your resistance is your bodyweight using disadvantageous leverage, you are still weight training. The article is about 2 very general reasons on why weight training is beneficial. It does not necessarily prefer one form of resistance over another (free wights vs. body weight).

In the field of MA, the use free weights (or using weight machines) is supplemental to the bulk of a practitioners training regimen (i.e. skill acquisition). More often than not the actual training to acquire skills will result in strength gains for the person.

My english is not perfect. It's just that with Colucci's use of it in the article is so non-technical that the layman should understand what he was trying to get across. From your posts though, it seems that you believe he is coming from a certain bias in which he prefers free weight over body weight training. Something that is not the case.

 

I would say that your English is far from perfect if you cannot grasp my point. I am a native English speaker and will be very shortly earn my B.A. in Linguistics (English). So, next time you want to insult someone's understanding of the English language, make sure that you know who you're talking to.
Here is a quote that you should read over and over and over so you can understand the perceived bias towards weights:

Are Power Cleans, Back Squats, Shrugs, or Deadlifts bodyweight exercises? No. In fact, the author of the original post is bias towards weights.
I posted articles from other authors precisely to provide a counterpoint to the argument for BW. I also noted the opinion of Karl Gotch, who has more experience in both fitness and fighting arts than anyone here. He has done BW and weights extensively, and without a doubt stands behind BW for strength training in the fighting arts.

 

Sorry if I ruffled yor feathers a bit. But in my experience, native english speakers don't necessarily have the command they are supposed to have over their own language. Besides, for all I know, you could've just earned your degree over the mail after paying some amount.

As for the quote, it was written entirely within the context of the article which encourages the use of weights. However, upon reflection of your post count, it is quite understandable for you to believe that the author has a bias towards moving iron. This is not true, however, which all of us who have been here for quite a while know. For example, Colucci has been known to promote chins, squats, dips, etc. using unusual leverage.

Read above.

Since we are in the subject of name dropping, most of us here are fans of Staley, that russian guy from dragondoor.com, and that guy who promises to give you full splits at stadion.com. All of them are advocates of using weights (bodyweight or otherwise). However, all of them recognize the fact that certain exercises are better than others depending on the sport.

All successfull MMA fighters use weights as supplements to their training. All of them clean, snatch, squat, and press iron.

A bit more from the article you posted:

A funny thought occured to me when reading this. In judo, wrestling, or any grappling sport, when you move your sparring partner forcefully towards a certain direction (as in the case of free sparring) doesn't that count as resistance training using weights (albeit the weight of your partner)? Doesn't that require your full attention - your full awareness - on determining how to position your body in order to properly direct where your partners body is supposed to go (especially at realistic speeds)? :woo:

His argument here is even quite weak. When doing heavy lifting, I am aware of both my body position and the weight at all times. If I'm not I usually break something.

Even the author recognizes the weakness of BW exercises.

Even the author recognizes the use of weights! But he doesn't seem to realize that brute force has a correlation to effective technique.

 

Yeah. That's cute. Why don't you take a look at my profile.

Since you're going to insult your integrity by basically insinuating that I'm lying, then I'm going to do the same.

For all I know, you still live with your mom in Oklahoma as a complete recluse with no experience of the world beyond the Internet and satellite TV.

Isn't this fun?

That's just the beginning of BW. But whatever.

Comparing "Staley, that russian guy from dragondoor.com" to KARL GOTCH... well, that's just beyond me.

Oh, and you can't just lump together BW and freeweight/machines as "weights". If you would have a clue, you would categorize these as "resistance exercises". Not "weights". Spend a year lifting weights and a year doing REAL high-leverage BW and then say "It's all just weights". You'd be lying to yourself then, too.

I hope that you can back that up with some kind of documentation. But you can't. Such blanket statements are sure signs of BS. Do you have any skills in critical thinking? I doubt it.
I don't even tolerate blanket statements from my woman, I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from some kid that lives in his mom's basement. That statement has been thrown out until further notice.

How does moving a weight that resists your attempts compare to moving an inert lump of metal/rock/whatever? Let me fill you in. It doesn't.

You're talking about good form. Body awareness and awareness in space are different from "good form". Jeez, your ignorance of this subject astounds me, considering the length of your post.

Brute force has NO CORRELATION to effective technique. If you have to use brute force to apply a technique, then you're probably using the wrong technique. There is a correct technique for every situation. One should train to use an appropriate technique, not just go lift weights so that you can muscle some flabby move. That's what separates some MA-trained brawler from skilled martial artists.

Well, it was nice talking to you I guess. If you ever want to see the other side... well, go for it. There's plenty of info on the web.

'asta.

 

thank you for a great article. about time somebody did bring up the subject. needs to be addressed. and thank all of you that have replied that have the experience and common sense to support weight training.

have listened to other martial artist tell me not to use weight training for several years. thier opinion seems to be founded on what the instructor said and not from personal experience.

have problems getting to a gym? that is why i own my well loved and used bowflex. maybe not as good as everything the gym offers yet helps with a tight schedule. who am i kidding ? the bowflex rocks!

 

That's just my basic response to people in forums on the internet making claims that are at best difficult (at the very least pointless) to verify.

True. But these are the more common exercises used because with only a little tinkering you can get maximum benefit while Not taking time away to learn more useful martial skills.

By far the hardest arm exercise that is usually done in MA are handstand pushups. But they're nothing compared to the arm exercises of acrobats, gymnasts and contortionists.

Pavel Tsatsouline is the russian guy at dragondoor and Tom Kurz is the polish guy in stadion.com. Staley is a reputed trainer of sports professionals.

But I'll do you another one better. Masahiko Kimura, the famed judoka, trained with free weights to supplement his judo.

But speaking of Karl Gotch, I wouldn't doubt that he could do one-legged squats. But I doubt if he included planches in his training.

Yes you can. They are all lumped under "progressive resistance exercises." Any exercise has to deal with resistance. To get any further will have to progressively increase resistance.

Define the exercise, define the sport, and define the needed skill set. There is a reason why some exercises are better than others depending on the sport.

There is a magazine published by weider products that detailed some of what is in Chuck Lidell's training regimen. Ever watched Ultimate fighter? All the coaches are successful MMA fighters. Ever see them make the participants do disadvantageously leveraged BW exercises? If a participant ever did a planche they would be sure to show it.

I don't live in my mom's basement. But I won't hold it against you if you don't belive me.

I thought you're getting a degree in linguistics. Please look up inertia. Moving living weight is not only relegated to randori in judo. There is also ukemi where the uke (or the one being thrown) does not make any attempt to counter. Of course this doesn't mean that he has to actively assist in the throw. He's just like a sack of rice, meaning the resistance is just his own dead weight and whatever position he is at the time..

Body awareness and awareness in space is a requisite in maintaining "good form." Jeez, your ignorance of this subject amazes me, considering your post on highly leveraged BW.

Brute force assists the performance of technique, while technique makes efficient use of brute force. The reason why there is an appropriate technique for every situation is because of the search for the most efficient response. In judo for example, a 120 lb man would find it hard to do a shoulder throw on a 250 lb man without destroying the latter's balance. Its even harder if the 250 lb man has a strong base. The 120 lb man needs a certain degree of strength to fuel his technique in order to accomplish this.

 

yeah, well if it takes you a week to write a reply that may or may not be well thought out...

 

Huh?

I always thought the number one reason to lift weights was because you were under them. *shrug*

The number two reason was to get women.

 

I can just smell the solidarity...

Is agreeing with me part of your argument?

Thanks for bringing that up. Here you go.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkDBflFtPIw]Kimura's class. Watch'em pump that iron!!![/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GVGdza7k1I]Karl Gotch' exercises. Yeah, he has no clue about gymnastics, right? Wrong![/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNWHM6aAius]Here's more Karl Gotch[/ame]

Yeah, but you called it weights. Thanks for agreeing with me again. It sure helps your argument.



Not.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure that that was covered in one of the very good articles that I posted above.

I don't care what they do on Ultimate Fighter. Besides, maybe if Chuck did something different, he wouldn't have gotten beat down the other day. If you do what everyone is doing, are you superior? No.

Half of this seems like you're agreeing with me, & the other half just looks like rambling. Please try telling me me something I don't know so that I can be amazed.

Sure it does...

Really? How much strength? How do masters like Mifune-sensei do it then?

"When he was 40, he was challenged by a 6 foot, 240 pound sumo wrestler. Mifune, 5'2" tall and 100 pounds, finally slammed the wrestler with his trademark 'airplane" throw (kukinage). He ate sparingly, slept on a Western-style bed, and did not smoke. In 1937, Kano elevated Mifune to kyduan (9th Degree)."
http://www.bstkd.com/JudoHistory/HistoryMifune.htm

Man, you really need to get a clue. You think he's doing some MMA workout, at 100lbs? Is he tossing guys that are over twice his weight? Get a clue!

 

See how that works? Its called a Timely Retort.

 

Can we limit this to pure debate without the one-upsmanship?

On Topic: The only advantage bodyweight exercises have over weights is the ability to do them anywhere. Saying bodyweight is superior because certain muscle groups can be trained for high reps is ridiculous, you can easily achieve the same effect by doing high repetitions with weights, with the added advantage of better control over variation. If you can already do a movement for 1000 repetitions there will be far more benefit adding resistance than trying to add more reps.

Ultimately both are useful tools, and argueing about which to use is purely an academic exercise. The intelligent trainee will use both.

 

I don't recall anyone even talking about super high reps, but that's okay.

Besides, as an academic, I like academic exercises such as debate. Or as I like to call it, Verbal Randori

Pure BW, of course!

 

Your own quote:

That's fine, but posts like this:

are unnecessary for academic debate.

 

I've never done anything 1000 times in a row. & I mean anything. I don't think that anyone really takes all those myths seriously, unless it's in the Guiness Book.

BTW, timely retorts are a sign that you know what the hey you're talking about, or at least that you possess wit

 

That was an example, feel free to replace 1000 with any number above 20.

Not when you have to point them out to people they aren't.

 

Actually, the pointing out was more of a jab than anything else. Point taken.

*Get it? Point... jab... oh, never mind *

 

Are you trying to imply that anything above 20 reps is a waste of time? I hope not, because that is pure falacy.

 

Off course not, it's goal dependant. That would be like implying anything under 20 reps is a waste of time.

 

So... what was your point, then? Why say that?