To RedBagani Filipino Emptyhanded arts-Pangamut,yaw-yan

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Viking, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

  2. gatsbi

    gatsbi New Member

  3. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    No problem, man. I don't have anything to hide. The only reason why I don't want to be identified is because I want to be read for my ideas in an objective manner. I don't want people to go."Red Bagani is saying that about so-and-so group because he is affiliated with so-and-so club(s)."

  4. littlebadboy

    littlebadboy Valued Member

    RUEL who?
  5. Viking

    Viking Valued Member

    Hi Wanlu,

    I am wondering why you shift from Yaw-Yan to Muaythai and so did some other practitioners .As a practitioner of both how will you compare these two styles?I read one of your previous post about Yaw-Yan Ardigma in another forum( t sounds like a street orieneted style than a sports or competition art.Lot of armed and unarmed techniques and counter against Karate ,Muay Thai,Judo,Grappling etc.Is this the same style taught in new Yaw-Yan gym.
    Which style is armed Ardigma derived from? Is it Arnis Lanada?

    Thank You
  6. Amok

    Amok Valued Member

  7. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    For RedBagani

    Greetings RedBagani…

    I PM you my mobile number to prove to you that I am who I claim I am…in fact, I don’t use an alias in this forum or any other forums for that matter…Im Wanlu in real life…

    I have nothing against you or Tat Kon Tou nor Rolly Tadefa…and Im glad you accepted my apologies…

    This time, its me who will ask you to pls PM me your mobile number…its always better to make new friends rather that create enemies…

    Can I also ask how old you are and where were you seated in the Zapata-Tadefa fight…

    Id like to warn you also that my next post might not sound well but needs to be posted for the ff comments are direct from the horse’s mouth so to speak…

    I hope to see you at the SEA Games…and I was given the honor of inviting you for a cup of coffee on behalf of Sir Zapata…Thanks and MAP needs more people like you…

  8. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Zapata-Tadefa Fight

    Greetings my friends…

    As promised , I went to the Yaw-Yan Fighting Challenge last night at the Yaw-Yan Makati Gym…We had a good turn out and all the fights were fantastic.

    I was seated beside Master Nap and Sir Emiliano Zapata…during the break, I managed to ask Master Nap about the Zapata-Tadefa fight but for some reasons, I cant post what the Master had to say about the fight…

    Sir Zapata however had a few things to say about the fight…

    First of all let me emphasize that I was not at the Zapata –Tadefa fight and the ff are comments from Emiliano Zapata himself …

    The pictures if allowed to be attached are pictures of that fight (it would also be best if RedBagani can show his own set of photos during the fight and not just a photo of the decision)…

    Zapata dominated the fight but lost over a decision. Tadefa won by a point.
    Zapata also emphasized that he was cheated by a hometown decision since the fight was sponsored by Tadefa’s peers. The Philippine Yaw-Yan Assn and the Yaw-Yan Brotherhood as a whole felt cheated thus issued an invitation for a rematch but was declined by Mr. Tadefa SEVERAL TIMES…in fact, Tadefa never went in the ring again to fight…Tadefa trained a fighter to go up against Zapata in the person of Mr. Domingo Catampatan. Mr. Catampatan was defeated by Zapata…Tadefa’s Camp asked for a rematch and was given to them and again Zapata defeated Mr. Catampatan…

    As for the Zapata –Tadefa fight… my personal opinion is a lost is a lost and that’s why I apologized for posting that Zapata won that fight…however, the fact that Mr. Rolly Tadefa never granted Zapata the rematch, I have to say that it was not a convincing win. If Tadefa knew that he won the fight convincingly, Im sure he would have granted Zapata a rematch…

    By the way…Mr Domingo Catampatan was one of the judges in the fights last night…and I asked him if he was present during the Zapata-Tadefa fight and if he could say anything about that it. Unfortunately, he was not at that fight and cannot give comments about the Zapata-Tadefa fight …

    During the times that I was with Mr Tadefa…the fight was never an issue. We were all good friends sharing one common interest…Filipino Martial Arts I strongly believe that if we continue this line of probing…we might create a conflict and instead of promoting our FMA to the world, we might be doing the contrary.

    The Zapata-Tadefa fight is history…Rolly Tadefa won. Convincingly or not…it probably doesn’t matter…Rolly Tadefa won and that’s the only reason why I apologize for posting otherwise.

    The Yaw-Yan fighting challenge last night featured fighters from Yaw-Yan Pasay and Yaw-Yan Makati…Out of 10 very young Yaw-Yan fighters, 4 won by KO …4 won via decision…1 lost over a decision… and 1 had to settle for a draw…

    The night featured honorable opponents from Tat Kon Tou…Bullhandead…MuayThai and Elements and Exposure teams

    The next fight night will be at the Rizal Stadium which will feature Senior fighters from Yaw-Yan schools nationwide (Manila,Cebu, Cordillera etc)
    Against fighters from Kyokushin Karate, Jeet Kune Do, MuayThai, WuShu and other Martial Arts styles…all for the spirit of Sportsmanship and all the Glory to God…

    Thanks for reading…


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2005
  9. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Yaw-Yan and MuayThai

    Hi Viking...

    Master Nap is not happy at all...but is left without a choice since YawYans need to eat too and as for now, Money and Fame is in MuayThai...

    Personally, I had to go to MuayThai as far as training is concerned only for Cardio reasons...Im too old for YawYan training...

    I like MuayThai cos of its simplicity yet so effective ...I also admire how the THAIS ARE SO SOLID in promoting their art...if only we can be d same...

    Im not into MuayThai politics ...Im been asked for a position several times but have always declined...Im happy with helping out once in a while

    YawYans who are now in MuayThai are still YawYans by heart...its an honor for these Yaw-Yans to represent the country in MuayTHai events...however, let me stress out that MuayThai training and style is different so the fighters had to train MuayThai style ...

    FYI...Im one of the founding officers of MuayThai NSA Philippines

    but then again, I believe that VIOLOENCE SHOULD BE KEPT IN THE BEDROOM

    Im still YawYan and will forever be YawYan even if I do cross train in other arts...I also plan to take up Arnis Soon...

    Tried BJJ but again...Im too old for graplling Id love to learn how to grapple but unfortunately I cant, the mind is willing but my arthritis is not...

    More power to MAP

    Attached photo features Kru Billy Alumno (red shorts)who just won a Gold at the Asian Indoor Games in Thailand together with bedroom fighter Wanlu (who just gave his wife a gold ring to get la?????)



    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2005
  10. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan


    " Wanlu, wittingly or unwittingly, became a spokesman for Yaw Yan propaganda when he brought out photos of Tadefa allegedly being "punished and eventually knocked out". The photos do not show that. The face of the person being hit by Zapata is not clearly seen. That person could be anyone, including Wanlu himself. "

    Dear Redbagani...

    It may be difficult to accept it but the picture is Tadefa being hit smack on the face by cant see the face because Zapatas foot is all over can match your picture and mine...check the ring...the background...the refereee...Tadefa's pants...Zapata's shorts etc...NOTE THAT TADEFAS HEEL IS RAISED TO THE GROUND BECAUSE OF THE HIT...

    I am wrong when i said that it was a ko...and that Zapata won...but my pictuers show that Zapata dominated the fight...yours only show the decision which according to Zapata himself was a hometown decision...Zapata repeatedly asked for a rematch but was never given to him...

    I understand that you think Tadefa dominated that claim that you were there and I respect it...But I will have to think otherwise for Zapata has a very good record to show...Zapata defeated a lot of very Good fighters mostly via KO...including a lot of BIGGER AND HEAVIER FIGHTERS FOR NOBODY IN HIS WT CATEGORY WANTED TO FIGHT ZAPATA...HIS RECORDS ALSO INCLUDES VICTORIES OVER FOREIGN FIGHTERS FROM THE USA,THAILAND,NIGERIA etc...Zapata TKO'd Claro Borja at the Pankration Challenge and TKo'd Tisoy Siscon of Bakbakan...I can add more names if you want...

    With all due respects...Id like to ask if you have other pictures of the Zapata -Tadefa fight that you can post here so we can include it in our Gallery...

    You have to understand that we do not claim that Yaw-Yan fighters are unbeatable or Zapata cant be defeated but the YawYan Brotherhood in general has worked real hard to give Yaw-Yan the respect it dserves...and to promote Yaw-Yan worldwide. The record of YawYan in the ring or in the topadas and even in the streets only shows that YawYan is a style we YawYans are proud of...

    Hoping to sit down with you at the SEA Games...
    Coffee is on me...dont forget the sandwiches...


  11. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Hello Wanlu,
    I got your PM and I now understand where you are coming from. Rest assured, I will meet you and your questions will be answered. I still prefer to keep personal details private for the meantime, because I want to be regarded as non-partisan and I am not promoting any specific club or style on this forum.

    Since it was master Zapata's request to air his side of the fight that happened two decades ago, I welcome his version. There is no point debating that anymore, because as you said, a loss is a loss. I just wanted to set the record straight. If Yaw-Yan regarded that fight as a no-contest because of cheating, then the website should not have included that in their records. But revising the facts demanded a response from me. About the claim to being cheated, .....I don't think that can be resolved anymore. I actually expected that claim to come up.

    After that fight, master Rolly Tadefa went on to fight three more opponents that same year. The second to the last opponent broke his rib. This injury hampered his fight against the third guy. Although he defeated all his opponents, he decided to retire because of his injury. There was not enough money in fighting to offset such risks. He left a record wherein he kO'd or TKO'd many of his opponents. I can't remember the actual figures but I think I posted it earlier.

    Of course, it there was a rematch 20 years ago, I would place my bets on master Tadefa, and I am sure you will place your bets on Zapata. That is part of the sports. :)

    By the way, I am also interested in knowing what master Zapata has to say about his fights with Muay Thai in Bangkok. Are these fights included in his "undefeated" record? There were also other fights that may not have been included in his list.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2005
  12. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Im so sorry but For a fighter to intentionally refuse a rematch takes away a lot from that fighter...If Tadefa did fight 3 more fighters after Zapata, then Im more convinced that Tadefa did not want to be in the ring with Zapata again...

    I asked how old you are and where were you seated at the Zapata-Tadefa fight...please answer either here or via PM. Im also asking for your mobile number via PM...YOU ASKED MY MOBILE NUMBER LIKE i WAS SOMEONE PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE...AND I PM YOU MY MOBILE NUMBER AND TOLD YOU THAT IM WANLU AND I DONT USE ANY OTHER ALIAS...I EXPECT YOU TO DO THE SAME SO THAT WE CAN TALK LIKE MEN AND NOT FAGS HIDING BEHIND KEYBOARDS

    RedBagani Said..."About the claim to being cheated, .....I don't think that can be resolved anymore. I actually expected that claim to come up."

    What do you mean by this... YawYan fighters have been defeated in the ring and we accept defeats ...makes our fighters train harder

    as for Zapata's fight against MuayThai fighters in Australia, Bankok and Singapore...its not part of his record as a YaYan fighter for those fights were MuayThai fights...not MMA or Mixed style or MuayThai vs YawYan...

    He did beat a MuayThai fighter on a YawYan vs MuayThai event held in Manila a long time ago...

    Zapata is a retired fighter in the ring...but anytime Tadefa wants to face Zapata in a rematch...I WILL PERSONALLY FINANCE THAT FIGHT AND PERSONALLY PROMOTE IT...

    The Zapata -Tadefa photos were intentionally given to me by Master Nap to be counted as a win for Zapata's record...we will update the YawYan websites gallery and place more photos of that fight...LET THE WORLD DECIDE WHO WON...

    I cant blame you for siding with Tadefa for he is your teacher and Im sure you cant blame me as well for siding with Zapata for he is not just a teacher...but a kumpare and a very good friend of mine.

    Im getting tired of checking the net for your reply thats why I want your mobile number would be best to talk to you personally at the SEA Games over a cup of coffee...again,please dont forget the sandwiches.

    Im the Official fights timer so Ill be occupied ...but there will only be 4 fights on the first day of MuayThai action so better if you go that day (Dec1-2pm)...

    See you soon and have a great workout...

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2005
  13. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    Great photos,

    Unfortunetly, for those of us who weren't there, and who know very little of Master Zapata and Master Tadefa all that gives us are snapshots of moments in time. Freeze frames don't tell the story of an entire fight.

    What would be ideal is if there was video footage of the fight that could some how be placed online. Was the fight taped? Would anyone here have access to it?

    Does anyone know if there were newspaper articles rergarding the details of the fight?

    Regardless of the outcome of this discussion, I'm very glad emptyhand fighters of this caliber such as Master Zapata and Master Tadefa exist in the Philippines. My thanks to both Wanlu and Red for sharing with us thier exploits!
  14. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    At this point I'm going to say the usual about Personal contact details & inciteing conflict.

    This thread has been an enjoyable historical debate, and I understand why emotions are running high.Please don't let it get locked

    1.3 Inviting outside Contact:
    "Inviting" is termed as a post where you invite other members to contact you to find out more information, rather than post it in the forum. This is not allowed and any posts with emails or invitations to contact for more information will either be edited or deleted entirely.

    1.4 Posting Personal Contact Information (Address/ Phone Number):
    Members may not post personal contact information such as home address, work address, home telephone number, work telephone number, email address etc., in the public forums.
    1.4.1 ANYONE, including guests to MAP, can read the public forums - this policy is in place for YOUR safety and protection.

    4.5.2 Members that visit MAP only to participate in "conflict" threads or who incite others on other forums and websites to do so are not welcome here and their account may be temporarily suspended or permanently removed.
  15. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan


    Greetings Mr Moderator

    I hope asking a mobile number is allowed via PM... :love:


  16. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    As long as you respect the other persons choice not to give you it
  17. littlebadboy

    littlebadboy Valued Member

    i agree...

    if i may give my humble opinion. i hope that we would respect the choice of some map'ers to be anonymous or hidden behind an alias. sometimes, this is necessary to give out a constructive or deconstructive comment about other styles or even his own style by his observations without any impediments of politics or having personal grudges against his own self in real life.

    after all, this is an open forum board, therefore, all thoughts negative or positive may be discussed here freely.

    i hope you guys keep your cool and just keep posting your comments rather than end up fighting each other.

    mabuhay tayong mga pilipino!
  18. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    Refusing a rematch never takes away anything from any fighter. In the martial arts world, -- as opposed the the professional prizefighting world whre large amounts of money is involved, rematches don't often occur. Usually because they're not asked for. Fighters fight to prove the merit of their art and their ability as a fighter. In this case, it seems that both combatants did both of these things. To insist on a rematch would be nothing but an excercise in ego.

    Trust me, RedBagani is old enough to have been there in person as an adult. In fact, I suspect he may have watched Flash Elorde and even Pancho Villa fight in person as well.

    Homosexuals are everywhere, as if they're the only ones who hide behide keyboards. They're with the Philippine military, the PNP, and just about every martial art - probably including yaw yan. Heck, I have suspicions about some of my guys. But then again, its the 21st century, so it just doesn't matter.

    Would this be a GAB sanctioned event. I believe they have an age limit for fighters of 36 for events like this. But I could be wrong.

    I'll defer to Crucible's eloquent post above about pictures being a snapshot of a moment in time. But, the one where Mr. Tadefa's hand is being raised in victory seems to carry more weight.

    And this is why we have judges. More often than not, they're in the best position to decide the winner. So, I don't have to take anybody's side, I'll just believe the judges as to who won.
  19. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    ano ba yan? "what's up with that?"

    it's simple. for the record: who won the fight?

    let's not act like babies and cry foul everytime that things don't go our way. that's what's wrong with the philippines. in every election there are winners and those who got cheated. tama na nga yan! "enough already!"

    i urge you people to quit it. it makes the filipino fighter look bad.
  20. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    A long & boring but necessary post

    Let me clear up a few things for you so that you don't get stressed out or "tired of checking the net for my reply", as you put it. This is a public forum and if you are tired of reading the posts and prefer just to communicate in private, then maybe you should ask yourself why you joined MAP in the first place. You raise questions and make public comments about an issue, I prefer to answer them in public.
    1. You were right when you said that Rolly Tadefa may not remember you anymore. I asked him if he knew a Juancho Luneria, or a Wanlu and he said he doesn't remember. I cannot compel tadefa to contact you if he doesn't see the need to. I am not obliged to give you my contact number just because you gave me yours and I never promised to exchange numbers. You are almost violating MAP rules by insisting private information from another member. Because of the nature of my work, I do not just give my number to any Tom, **** or Wanlu. Maybe if your name was Diana, Angel or Asia, I would.
    2. You were right to apologize for the comments you made about Tadefa because they were clearly erroneous and unfair. However you later nullified the spirit of the apology by making an unsubstatiated claim that Tadefa won by cheating. You base your claim on a few photos and the infalliable words of your Grandmaster.
    3. You were right when you posted in another thread that our good moderator locked about not making any more comments that can inflame this discussion. Then you fail to follow your own advise by issuing a silly challenge for a Tadefa rematch. Maybe you are speaking for yourself, which is really asinine, because this forum is not a venue for issuing challenges. Now if you were speaking as a representative of Yaw Yan, that is even worse. It shows there is no genuine effort on YawYan to make amends for the misleading claims they put up in their website. In either case, it is very apparent to anyone that this is just a cheap publicity stunt to score pogi points. Your gimmick falls flat because it is over a dead issue.
    4. You were right to extend your hand in friendship and I really appreciate your offer to a FREE cup of coffee.But again, as in the previous cases, you blew it on 2 counts.
    First, your unfriendly comments show you act in bad faith. It seriously puts doubt on your statements about goodwill and friendship. Together, we could have smoked the peace pipe (with your choice of chemical substance) but your inappropriate words doused the fire.
    Secondly, and more importantly, I don't think you are a gracious host. You offered to be the host and offered me a FREE cup of coffee, yet you ungraciously insisted that I provide sandwiches not just once but several times. Even an Ilocano, siad to be the most frugal of all Filipinos, will not force a guest to bring his own food AND that of the guest.

    In spite pof all these rights that you have ultimately turned wrong, I do not reject your call to friendship. However, as long as you continue to be a mouthpiece of YawYan and unrepentant of the wrongs you have made. I cannot accept your invitation to be your guest this Decenmber. I am just an ordinary guy who does not represent Tat Kun Tou, Rolando Tadefa or any prestigous person or organization.

    However, I will still go and watch the SEA games as I like Muay Thai. But in order to enjoy myself, I shall be seated among the screaming masses far, far away from your official seat where I will not be distracted by your ramblings about how Tadefa won by cheating.

    If you want to be friends, momentarily forget about Wanlu the high official of Philippine Muay Thai. Forget about Wanlu the ever-loyal Yaw Yan disciple. Just be Wanlu the Real Man Who Doesn't Hide Behind Keyboards. Then come down from your official's chair and meet me up among the masses in sincere friendship and humility. We will talk not as ideologues or partisans but as soul brothers. It is easy to recognize me. I will be the best-looking guy munching doughnuts. (I don't like sandwiches much) I will of course have my own drink, and you will have to provide your own food and beverage.

    Who knows? We may learn a lot from each other, stripped down to our very essence and humanity. I can teach you to have a better sex life, for example. There is no need to believe that violence should be kept in the bedroom, as you posted earlier. No wonder you have to buy your wife a gold ring just to get laid. Also, please do not look down on faggots. You may unwittingly be insulting somebody dear to you. You said it: "God is good all the time."

    God Bless You
    Red Bagani
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