To RedBagani Filipino Emptyhanded arts-Pangamut,yaw-yan

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Viking, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Ways to beat a YY stylist

    Hello Viking,
    I have been stressed out this week, and that should be a good excuse for my late reply. I also haven't heard from you for a long time, specially when I asked for advise on what to do with the picture I posted regarding that 1984 match. I guess you were still lurking in the background. Anyway, I will answer your query to the best of my knowledge. I can't recall many details, dates, places,names. I will still try to be as accurate as possible. I will also reduce the 'media milage' of the YY group since the YY website has not yet include my authentic photo in the photo gallery. I will hence refer to that group as YY. (Yes, you may say that I am still sore with them.)

    There are 5 Ways to beat a YY stylist. This is based not on some threory or speculation I have invented, but based on the analysis of actual fights of a YY champ. Just understand the following principles and put these principles to practical use:

    1. The stronger, fitter and better conditioned fighter has the greater chance to win
    YY is a powerful style but it is not the only style that can claim that. If two fighters from similar styles clash, the stronger, fitter and better conditioned fighter will win. When the YY champ fought younger opponents in Cebu City, he lost twice to kickboxers from the camp of Danny Diaz. I think his gym is called the Tiger's Gym. You can check this info out in Cebu City.
    YY counter: The top YY fighters are class A athletes ready to compete at international levels. To beat a top YY fighter, you must be in class A condition. Skills or techniques alone cannot guarantee a win.

    2. The fighter who uses more efficient, more effective techniques have an advantage over one that uses flashier, less effective ones
    Personally, I think that some of the kicking techniques of YY can be replaced by less flambouyant but more reliable standard kicks. For example, I have seen the scorpion kick thrown many times in YY competitions but these rarely hit. When YY fighters started competing against Muay Thai fighters, they found out that they could not use many of their flashy kicks. The flashy kicks required more energy and luck than the simple but very effective techniques of Muay Thai. That this is so is not surprising considering the longer history of Muay Thai, and its evolution out of different traditional styles of Thai fighting. The Korat, Chaiya, Ayuthaya, Bangkok, etc, styles of Muay Thai have blended in the sport and thus an efficient and effective form of modern Muay Thai emerged. The YY style has yet to undergo a similar kind of evolution. Coupled with the professional Muay Thai fighter's conditioning, Muay Thai is a standard to compare other kickboxing styles. YY has competed mostly at the amateur levels.
    To check on YY champ's Muay Thai record, you can contact Robert Valdez of AMAP (Amateur Muay Thai Association of the Philippines), where YY champ is associated with.
    For a balanced view, also contact former YY stylist, Orlando lapuz of the rival ATBAP (Amateur thai Boxing Association of the Philippines). Another rival club is headed by Rolly Catoy n(International Amateur Muay Thai Fedeation-Philippines)

    3.Hands move faster than kicks
    This is how Rolly Tadefa beat YY champ - everytime YY champ moved to kick, Rolly Tadefa moved quickly into the kick, and instead of blocking it force to force, he used a go with the force kind of block, whereby YY champ was off-balanced and even uprooted. This manuever is easier said than done and can be pulled off only by a very experienced fighter. An inexperienced fighter would wait for the opponent to kick and then move once he sees the kick coming. That is too late. The trick is not in being reactive, but in being proactive. This is done by creating little openings so the opponent will kick at these. YY champ relied too much on his kicking ability and became very predictable. Rolly Tadefa didn't even have to see and recognize what kind of kick was being thrown in which direction. He already knew, or rather could sense what YY champ was about to do.
    YY counter: As I said, this is easier said than done. The YY guys can kick from unbelievable angles at astonishing speeds.

    4. Use the opponent's force against him
    YY champ participated in a sport silat competition, where the rules took away many of his techniques (e.g. no leg kicks, no kicks to head, etc.). When he faced an Indonesian player, he was even more predictable than ewhen he faced Rolly Tadefa. YY champ had a much smaller choice of targets, and he always favored kicking. If Tadefa could upset YY cahmp and even uproot him using gloved hands, the Indonesian could do better with bare-hands. Also, unlike in Kickboxing, Silat rules allows one to catch a leg and throw an opponent, which is exactly what the Indonesian did. The harder one kicks, the further he can be thrown when his foot is caught, using the go-with-the-force principle. YY champ was thrown many times.
    To verify this story, you can always go to the PhilSilat headquarters at the Rizal Memorial Stadium. Hadji Yasser Tanadjalan is a coach there. You can ask him.

    5. A kicker can't kick properly in a grappling range
    Once an opponent gets very close or is able to put a kicker on the ground, the fight is practically finished unless the kicker also knows how to grapple. Many YY stylists have found that out. That is why there is a secret YY training program in Bulacan, just outside of Fairview, Quezon City, where YY ArDigma is being forged. The term comes from Arnis and Pandigma ("For use in Battle"), which will be YY's answer to the grappling arts. The founder was a judo black-belt, and I won't be surprised if ArDigma has grappling moves of its own and improved hand techniques.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2005
  2. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    hey red, where's number 2, 3, 4, and 5? oh, and the photos on the yy website are back up. i'll await the continuation of your post. :)


    edit: oh ok, the post's complete now. must take lots of notes. :D
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2005
  3. MasteR-[G]

    MasteR-[G] New Member

    RedBagani: wow man, where did you get all these info? By the way, Dan Diaz is the uncle of my girlfriend. He's the brother of my gf's mother. Danny used to be one of the most respected martial art practitioner especially in kickboxing several years ago in Cebu. I dont know what exactly happen to their club, Tigers why it vanish all of the sudden. My gf accounts that it was due to financial and marital problem that he wasnt able to handle. She wasnt quite elaborate about it. The TIgers used to be one of the most feared MA club in Cebu since they were able to produce excellent and great fighters. Even our senior YY'ans admit it. A number of their fighters/students went to YY after the disappearance of Tigers.

    I guess Cebu have got a lot of great fighters also huh... Btw, just want to verify if Zapanta really came from cebu? I heard a story that he used to be living in Pasil, Cebu before he was discovered by Master Nap and was sent to Manila.
  4. burungkol

    burungkol Team Yaw-Yan

    they say 'never share your weakness to an opponent'...
    just to add more ideas on red's posts:
    True. YY relies more on heavy training and conditioning since we use our body as an arsenal especially our shins, this (conditioning) is true among all other empty handed martial arts. most of our fighters even lives, sleeps, eats and trains with the instructors at the gym for several months ahead of the fight. Most of our fighters are built like golf clubs: slim and stiff - w/c is ideal for us. If you are not fit, it is more likely that gm nap would not allow you to fight. I could say that no matter how effective your style was, if you don't train, you won't win.

    Nowadays (due to evolution), we use these kicks as distractions and/or preparation for more efficient kicks. these moves thus make our strikes more effective. It also coincides with my personal term "dance" - series of steps/strikes that makes it continuous. It is what i personally love about our art, the continuity and combination of our strikes. we dont just hit with one move...this move opens up for a series of different combinations.

    When muay thai first came into the philippines, Yaw-Yans had been part of the first philippine muay thai team. they had been chosen because of their similarities in style. similarities, meaning they only need little adjustments to adapt to muay thai itself. the arrival of muay thai to the country had became a true awakening regarding it's moves and especially on how our training was made... especially that most senior yaw-yan instructors had been a part of that team.

    I have an example i can share. Yaw-Yan's training is based on the traditional, hard-core style, and it takes a step-by-step process to skillfully master the techniques. this is oftentimes painful and takes a lot of dedication and discipline to learn the art. but once you get hold and learn the techniques this way, you are already a class A fighter.

    Muay thai's learning technique is done scientifically. this can be credited on what RED stated - it already exists over a large period of time that the art had evolved in lots of ways and that it had been perfected to it's fullest.

    Yaw-Yan is relatively new as compared to muay thai. though yaw-yan is already ok as an art in itself, it still needs to evolve and improve what it already has to make the art much more effective and scientific. this is what happened to ARDIGMA - a Yaw-Yan evolution that's happening right in front of us, right in our time.

    believe it or not, boxers are our hardest opponents. boxers are like well-polished, well-oiled, and well-sharpened pounding machines. again, conditioning comes into play. boxers are extremely trained and conditioned thus it is harder for them to get knocked out. they know to take blows and their body could take the beating. this is where technique comes into play. whoever has the most "food in the lunch box - technique, gas, will-power" would surely win.
    every attack has a counter... one has to see it coming and react quickly to it.. every move should be natural to you..once you think over it, it is already too late. Based on Red's post above, even if Yaw-yans can kick from unbelievable angles at astonishing speeds, Rolly Tadefa can see when the attack is coming that is why he was able to make counters for it. In the ring, it's not just a battle of strength or techniques but a battle for the mind as well.

    most of yaw-yan's losses comes from fights under other arts' specific rules. these rules came in to our disadvantage. these rules disables majority of our techniques thus decreasing our most prized arsenals and making our art less effective. if what we know is not applicable to the rules, we have a lesser chance of winning.

    to it's fullest potential, yaw-yan is meant to fight no-holds - street fights and such... this adds to the account and claims that yaw-yan is the "deadliest martial art". our competition and tournaments were not recognized by the philippine Game and Amusements Boards because they wanted to remove majority of our techniques. it is GAB that states that these moves are fatal such as hits on the back of the spine.

    what i am most proud of is that we, yaw-yans, still join and fight under other art's rules even though these disadvantages poses right in front of us. yaw-yan is a fighting art... it gladly joins any matches no matter what art it is against.

    grappling is indeed not our game. our current technique is based on stand-up skills. this had been proven already in the local MMA scene such as URCC and Fearless. grapplers easily outmaneuvered yaw-yans on the ground and this had been our waterloo. as i've said, in my previous post, we find it hard to win under other arts' rule..... but we still keep on fighting :D. though these are mma, elbows, knees, and majority of our techniques are still restricted and worse, are not allowed.
    these losses had brought concern to us thus the ARDIGMA is being forged. this is not a grappling art. instead, it is being built to make aid and supplement yaw-yan in these battles and to counter different arts/techniques as well.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2005
  5. burungkol

    burungkol Team Yaw-Yan

    hi viking! :D

    on my list, i only have 3 factors that needs to be considered in order to win.

    1. Vitamins, minerals and health supplements
    2. Age
    3. Training

    a body is well conditioned especially if it is well fed/supplemented. unfortunately, among yaw-yans in general, we do not have the luxury of buying expensive supplements and stuff. most filipinos are poor especially with the current economy, we get poorer and poorer each day.... the more we can't afford these kind of stuff.

    on item #2, every fighter has their peak age. it is generally between their teenage years until late 20's. it is a man's prime life. age factor greatly affects stamina, strength and endurance.

    what we lack in the first two items, we make up in training. we get prepared for each opponent and make sure that we train more and harder than the other guy. this had been our major recipe in winning.

    if you've got majority of these three items then victory is more likely to come your way.

    hope this helps bro :D
  6. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    Please try and limit your replies to 1 post

    4.7 Many people judge member’s credibility based on post count, so we ask that you obtain your post count legitimately.
  7. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    post count = credibility? lol.
  8. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    Mental but true

    There's a fair few newbies that believe that :(
  9. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    LOL. ok noobs. take note: i'm more believable than hig is.
  10. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog

    But I'm prettier :p
  11. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    wait, i thought i was the pretty one here? :p

  12. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    That can't be. I'm the prettiest. The REAL fighters have missing teeth, broken noses, cauliflower ears, calloused eyebrow ridges...and that's just the face I described. No, wait. I take that all back. I don't want any of you pretty guys to beat me up. Hahahaha
  13. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    wait, i don't have any of the stuff you mentioned. i guess i'm too pretty huh!? :D

  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Hey! is he talking about me??? At least Lucy Loves me, cause I know she is not married to me for me looks or me money hahaha!

    And anyway, you may call me ugly, but I can kick your butt hehehehehe.

    Best regards

  15. Jesh

    Jesh Dutch Side Of The Force

    And that's what counts :D...
  16. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Hello Pat. I think you misunderstood what I said. Did you hear me say "Ugly"? No, I didn't. All I said was fighters look just a tad different. Even with that prominent bald patch where the last opponent tore off a handful of hair, I wouldn't call anyone ugly. Please don't kick my butt. Believe me, you don't want your foot stuck where it doesn't belong.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  17. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Zapata was from Cebu, so has many of the good fighters in full-contact. But recently, some of the best fighters have been coming from the northern provinces where a combination of pristine mountain air, a living warrior tradition and economy has contributed to a pool of potentially good fighters. I am refering to the Cordillera people, such as Danny Foronda, the Sanshou/Wrestling/Mixed Martial Arts Bingwoel and many others.

    How did I get all this info? Some I learned it the hard way, first-hand. But mostly because I have learned how to listen to the right people. I let the real heroes and experts tell their stories, and it is really them and their insights that you read about in my posts. I am like a medieval bard, singing the lives of the great. I differ from the bard in a few ways. I do not embellish stories because I believe in the modern age, accuracy is imporatant. I have no time for stories about blind princesses, secret kali warriors, tamaraw wrestlers and the like. I also prefer to talk about the real masters, who unfortunately are not as articulate or computer savvy as so many of us. Many of these masters lead low-key lives, and unfortunately many of them have to eke a living as teaching martial arts is not so profitable here in the Philippines, except for a lucky few. I could liven up discussions and talk about strange but true tales about certified FMA masters who can't fight, masters who are sex perverts, self-proclaimed masters, real masters who have turned buccaneers and have ripped off their students, etc. But I don't thnik I am going to do that right now.
    I do want to mention other people, though, who like to write about FMA. I know this guy who has done a few lessons in arnis and who thinks he can now write about stickfighting! The nerve of that guy! He actually hurt one of my friends when he offered to demonstrate a stickfighting technique he was not authorized to teach.
  18. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    The True Story why KALI became a Secret Art

    I heard this story from the revered grandmaster of Topakdo Eskrima. It has been told and retold so many times by others and so must be true.

    The Sultan of Gundamin Southern Philippines had a beautiful daughter, a warrior-princess who was talented in the martial arts. She was born blind and the Sultan wanted to make sure that the man who was going to marry her would not take advantage of her blindness. He offered her hand in marriage to the man who could pass three tests. He wanted a man who was a martial arts expert, and loyal spouse. It was not nececssary for the groom to be good-looking. The princess, after all was blind. The offer attracted all sorts of martial arts experts, ugly and good-looking alike.

    Among the arnisadors, eskrimadors and other FMAers, was the renowned expert of KALI, Ka Libog. Since Ka Libog had a fearsome reputation, all the other contestants defered to him and he was given the first try at the tests.

    The first test required Ka Libog to drink ten jars of the native wine called tuba. After that he had to wrestle with a wild beast known as a tamaraw. Then he had to make love to the beautiful princess.

    Ka Libog accomplished the first test quickly. Unfortunately, Ka Libog became intoxicated and got his instructions mixed up. He eventually subdued the beast and as he emerged battered and bruised, he yelled, "Now where is that princess I am supposed to wrestle with?"

    When he realized his mistake, he fled to the mountains in shame and hid himself from the public forever. That is why, the art of KALI became a hidden art, and arnis and eskrima gained prominence.

    This TRUE story should permanently settle the issue of KALI as a fictitous art.
  19. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    Hahahah, Now that's a good one!
  20. Amok

    Amok Valued Member

    I'll tell you how to beat YY in 2 words. Train harder.

    You got into details of how YY practicioners lost. Those are all separate incidences. It never is the style but the student.

    There are two aspects of YY. One being the combat part which is today called Ardigma. Ardigma was always there but was never practiced because students would rather get into what is called kickboxing (the Sports aspect of YY ). Today they are nothing but kickboxers which is why Master Nap came out of retirement and created (brought back) Ardigma.

    Todays YY instructors made YY into a kickboxing art and completely forgot about the combative aspect of it because the $ and glory is in the ring especially today. When in the ring, styles and system is not much of a factor as compared to who's in better shape and who's body can take a beating.

    Old YY ring fighters were way ahead of their time. Hardly anyone could match YY as a group . A lot of what you see out there in terms of systems were old YY fighters who started their own gyms. It was a matter of time before the rest caught up. Today ,anyone can be a kickboxer and anyone can beat a YY practioner if you train hard. For the most part though, they still dominate the local scene in stand up ring fighting. The best Muay thai fighters locally are mostly from YY that switched in the hope of fighting abroad and hopefully glory and better financial stability.

    It's gonna be interesting to see what the Ardigma practitioners can do. Based on Master Nap's background, I believe they will be a force to recon w/. The problem w/ today is that it's harder to focus on one thing compared to the 70's because there's too much distraction in society.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
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