Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Viking, Jun 19, 2005.
oh wow, thanks a lot. now, why didn't i think of that?
yes yes, i know. now i feel all stupid. :cry: haha.
You know we're laffing WITH you, don't cha
hi sir, pls allow me to share a laugh on this, am on a read mode but can't resist this one, nice one sir
ei nico, peace ok, :love:
yeah elhig, i know you guys are laughing with me. don't worry, no offense taken.
no problem pinoy. we're still good.
Hello Mas Kiai,
I don't know why I thought of you as a She. It must have been something you wrote about in the Silat forums. Anyway, my apologies.
I heard about the Kopassus from my Indonesian friends when we trained together in Merpati Putih. Some of them liked this elite unit while others did not. I was training with them at the time when your country went through three Presidents, and I know the troubles your country went through. Like you, the Kopassus deserves a "Most Creative" Award because they can see a potential rebel behind every civilian.
I hope to meet you again.
Just Saying Hello
I am just saying hello. Can't stay too long coz I have less than 5 min to stay with the computer.
The founder of Tracma, Trobador Ramos, was said to have beaten Bruce Lee in a match and Tracma guys claim to have a photo of that match. Can anyone post that here? That would be very interesting.
Other Filipino Empty Handed Arts
There are several forms of Filipino empty-handed arts, but they can be divided into two groups - traditional and modern. They represent the ingenuity of several cultures and traditions that can be found in the Philippines. However, there are rea no pure Filipino empty-handed arts si e everybody also trains in one type of weapon or the other. It is better to look at these as arts within an art. For example, pangamut is not a distinct art, but a cmponent that is found in many styles.
Among the modern ones, I have included the art developed by Trovador Ramos, TRACMA, because the practitioners make a unique public claim that the founder once sparred with Bruce Lee and beat him. They even have a picture that I have not seen. I have asked several old-timers about this and they are divided in opinion whether this actually happened or not. I have seen Tracma techniques, and they look very effective. Trovador Ramos was a strong man, and a student told me he crushed a bamboo rod with a grip. It is not as exposed as the other arts because the club caters mostly to the Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) sect. They join full-contact matches and have done pretty well in the ring.
There are several other modern 'styles' but it is more accurate to call them as clubs or schools.
Among the traditional styles, we have the wrestling of the Northern tribes such as dumog and bultong. Bultong was once used to settle disputes, with wrestlers taking on the role of lawyers in a trial by duel. Dumog, on the other hand is better described by Mr. Daniel Foronda, the foremost promoter of Igorot Dumog in Manila: It is a back-up system that one uses in battle after losing one's main weapon; it assumes that one may still have a hidden dagger and so is not considered as purely an 'empty-handed' art.
In the Visayas, wrestling is called buno. Dugukan is a form of wrestling found in Cebu which also uses rope and other instruments.
In Mindanao, Silat-Kuntaw systems have very good empty-hand techniques but these systems are actually comprehensive ones that also include weapons and shields. Although generally believed to be imported from Indonesia and Malaysia, Filipino Moro Silat-Kuntaw have evolved their unique forms and expressions.
In all Filipino martial art forms, one sees the pragmatism and combat efficiency that is primary over aesthetics and rituals.
Hey Red! This has got to be the best thread I've read in MAP. Having said that, let me say that my objectivity is clouded as I'm a newbie Yaw-Yan practitioner. Anyway keep the your posts coming. I feel like going back to college and take up FMA History 101.
Thanks for your comments. Will continue to post. Later...
...very well-said, brother Redbagani; as for me i been quite busy. then again, i'll try to keep posting and reading on. also, i'll sked our Silat-Kuntaw practise. Salaam to you and everyone here...
hope you don't mind me putting my two cents in-
harimaw buno, from laguna, also uses a rope, weighted on both ends, worn around the waist. it can be used for striking, but the primary use is for disarming and subduing, which requires the ability to tie simple knots quickly under pressure. this art came to laguna from the mangyans of mindoro and the aetas of quezon. the mangyans called it lumad or harimaw lumad, and it was primarily a sport. however, the lubid (rope) was often used in hunting; trips might be several days' walk into the forest, and the longer an animal could be kept alive, the fresher the meat would be on returning to the village. to this end, prey would be subdued and tied, kept barely alive for the trip back. the skill in wrestling obviously crosses over to both areas. one of the most amusing sights i've witnessed is a grown man getting wrestled down and 'hog-tied' arm-to-leg to be dragged around accompanied by squealing pig noises and laughter.
Check and Double-Check Stories
Hello tim stl,
I am glad you joined in the discussion. You must be refering to the Garimot system of master Baet, one of the FMA styles that originated from Luzon. This August, the group will be having a public exhibition/tournament in Paete, Laguna. Maybe you are a member of that group. I don't like knocking off another organization but personally, I would like to look deeper into the claims of the group because a few things don't seem quite right.
The word harimaw is actually taken from a Sumatran word for "Tiger", which is actually spelled 'harimau' in Bahasa Indonesia. Why would the native Mangyans use a foreign language for a non-native animal (there are not tigers in the Philippines) to name their style? I have stayed with the Hanunoo (not Hanuo) and Iraya tribes in Mindoro and did not encounter the so-called Harimaw style of wrestling. But then it was several years ago since i have been to Mindoro and i wasn't doing any research on Mindoro FMA then.
The group also claims to wrestle with the tamaraw, a wild dwarf water buffalo that is found only in Mindoro. I find this story far-fetched. the tamaraw is an endangered species and scientists have been looking for them in the wild for a long time. Maybe the Garimot people have captured all of the remaining tamaraws for their practise?
I mean no disrespect. Just want clarifications.
thank you for the reply. i am indeed referring to the garimot system.
being a non-native animal, a foreign word would have to be used. does the word 'harimaw' not exist in the vocabulary of the modern mangyans (specifically among the hanunoo tribe)? if it not, there is good reason to doubt the story. if it does, then it's not at all improbable that a style of wrestling would be named after the animal that certainly has been attributed with ferocity and fighting prowess, even though it's not native.
i could come up with reasons for why they would all day. the question is whether they did. unfortunately, i can't answer that.
i don't recall any claim that garimot practicioners wrestle tamaraws, but i could be wrong. the only claim i recall relating to tamaraws is that wrestling them is a part of the traditional lumad/buno training. i don't even think there are any garimot practicioners on mindoro.
no disrespect taken. i'm sorry i don't have any definitive answers to your questions. i would suggest asking these questions of gat puno baet. if so, please post a summary of the discussion for us to read.
sorry. just to clarify. in my limited knowledge, the wrestling art in mindoro is known as "dumog" and that "buno" is visayan in origin.
My knowledge of native terms is also limited. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think wrestling is called Buno (as in Bunong Braso or arm wrestling) by the Tagalog, Bultong by the Ifugao, Dumog by the Visayan, Silaga by the Samal and Lawidan by the Mangyan. In the garimot website, the Mangyan wrestling is called Lumad or Buno. I think the word "Buno" is also used in the Visayas, just as "Dumog" is used in Luzon.
I probably won't be posting a summary of a discussion with master Abon Baet simply because right now I am not in the mood to ask him questions personally. After all, he has a website, and most likely he will simply be repeating what has already been posted as official statements of his group.
i honestly don't know much about the Garimot system, except that a club does exist in Laguna. I welcome its exposure to the public as a Tagalog-based FMA. As a Filipino, I would proudly support anyone promoting our arts and culture.
I still find the story about the Aeta and Mangyan tribes quite fantastic. I think the stories need to be scrutinized closer, just for the sake of historical accuracy. I don't need to ask master Baet about these tribes because I am quite familiar with them myself. When I was younger, I was an advocate for the rights of tribal and ethnic minorities. I travelled the Cordilleras in the North to the mountains and jungles in the South. I was the sort of human rights activist that rambo-types would have loved to shoot dead. My knowledge about the ethnic minorities is of a general kind and i am no expert in any single ethnic group. But i know enough if a tale about any one of them is true or not. I am very, very sure that if an unarmed Mangyan encountered a tamaraw in the wild, his instinct is to flee instead of wrestling it to the ground.
About the term "harimaw" meaning tiger. I am also sure that it is not found in any of the Mangyan languages, just as you won't find the word "polar bear" in any of the African languages. Maybe the word came from "halimaw", meaning a monster. But the garimot website translates the term to mean "King Tiger".
in a special edition of FMADigest,there is an interesting article about Harimaw Buno.The link is http://fmadigest.com/Issues/special-issues/special-issue.html
In this article also they have mentioned about wrestling with Tamaraws.
Hello RedBagani,u havent given any further information about Yaw-Yan,like the weakness of Yaw-Yan,about the fight between Zapata and Silat master and so on.Eagerly waiting for it.
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