To RedBagani Filipino Emptyhanded arts-Pangamut,yaw-yan

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Viking, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!,

    I like it, the all hail is back.:D

    Best regards


    he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!,
  2. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    Never fails :bang: and hello to you Pat :D
  3. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!, And hello to you to Oh great one:D

    he lives! bayani lives! all hail bayani!,

    Best regards

  4. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Hello to All

    What have you naughty boys and girls been posting in my absence? It is great to find you all here.

    viking: Knees and elbow are taught in YawYan as self-defence but these are not allowed in the ring. Nevertheless, many full-contact fighters know the subtle Art of the Crouching Head-Butt, Hidden Elbow.

    shootodog: I send you a PM. I can't and won't discuss details of underground fights. Unlike the organizers, I do not have police protection.

    brunstick: I hope to meet you this August. Be warned, though. I am a lousy drinking partner. After two bottles of beer, I fall asleep. A bad habit I acquired from living too long among Muslim friends.

    soulguru: I hope you continue to stick around.

    pat: Aaahh, a fellow frugalist! You won't find this word in the Queen's English. It means "Great Toilet-Paper Saver". It would be nice to meet you this December. Trying to ecsape the chills of the North? Actually we've 'met' twice. Once when you fought in Mandaue, Cebu in 2000. Then again as you were strolling with your pretty wife and cute kid in Cebu City.

    burungkol: Keep training with Yaw Yan. It is a great style and master Zapata is a great fighter.

    bayani: So nice to meet you here!
  5. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Tat Kun Tou

    Tatkuntou was developed in the mid-60s in Cebu City by Jose Millan, aka Joe Go, at the same time Nap Fernandez was developing Yaw Yan in Manila. The term means "The Way of the Kick and the Thinking Fist". It reflects the idea that fighting is done with the intelligent use of force. Although the name is derived from Fukien Chinese, Joe Go stated that his art used the basic structure of Balintawak eskrima as the base. Joe Go had been taught an updated form of Balintawak that the founder, Anciong Bacon developed during his prison stay for killing a man in a knife duel. Joe Go combined Balintawak and Fukienese Kung Fu to form Tatkuntou.
    Tatkuntou was primarily an empty-hand art, but at the higher level, practitioners also trained in weapons. Joe Go was an expert pistolero and a superb martial artist. He could crack a coconut through its husk with a punch. A student recounted to me that he saw the master punch nails into a wooden board. Advanced Tatkuntou students trained in the Iron Hand. The techniques leaned heavily towards hand striking, revealing the art's origins in Balintawak arnis and Southern Chinese kung fu. Adepts were also skilled in low powerful kicks, as well as in jamming, blocking, scooping and countering long-range kicks.
    Joe Go made money by betting on fights, not in providing mass instruction or opening several schools. He prefered to teach a small group of high-quality fighters rather than in popularizing his art. In fact, keeping his techniques secret prevented rival clubs from figuring out how to counter his style. The Tatkuntou club remained small but in the small world of martial arts fighters, it became a notorious club for producing champions. In fact, the boxer Magramo also trained in the gym for a while.
  6. Viking

    Viking Valued Member

    Hi Bayani,
    Is Yaw-Yan Ardigma a combination of yaw-yan and brazilian Juitsu.And what about Yaw-Yan combat.Is it a street fighting style or the same Yaw-Yan Ardigma?
    Thank You
  7. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    it's the hard core training of old, going back to what workd well for Yaw yan but with the addition of knowing how to deal with grappling based on the expetiences of Master Nap who aslo has a background in grappling arts. In the days of old Yaw Yan did quite well because they were well prepared for the game they involved themselves with. Today with MMA gaining popularity in the Philippines and with BJJ being represented well, YAw Yan students outside of master nap himself started a hybrid mix of Kickboxing and grappling which was a mix of two arts and loosing the dominant trait of the hard hitting yaw yan. Understanding that grappling plays a big part of the MMA tourneys, master Nap supposedly formed ardigma to prepare for this type of arena.
  8. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    no yawyan + bjj = hybrid yawyan. main proponent is a guy named henry kobayashi. that's been launched already. made it's debute in the first urcc (a local mma event).
  9. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    cool! hahaha! we're gonna get drunk then get drunk some more, and then drink more until we can't stand up! :p

    oh don't worry about it, i haven't had a drink in almost 2 years! i'm out of practice! i still have the huge beer belly though. :p sorry for changing the topic to drinking again; i guess we could talk about food too? :p

    later guys!

  10. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Different Phases of Tatkuntou

    Tatkuntou went through several phases of development. The first stage saw the development of physically tough individuals such as Victor Quillosa, Boy Ursal and many others. Tatkuntou was both a system for self-defense as well as for use in the ring. The Tatkuntou punch can be likened to a hollow-point bullet which does not penetrate through a target but 'explodes' the energy inside the target. However, when the fist is covered by a glove, some of this explosive energy is 'muffled' and absorbed by the soft material of the glove. A punch for ring use was developed by Boy Ursal, and later used by Rolly Tadefa to devastating effect. It is similar to the overhand punch of Western boxing.

    The Tatkuntou club in Manila was set up by Boy Ursal, Rolly Tadefa, Yuli Romo and his brother Boy, Manny Cabug and Fred Olar. This group focused on the kickboxing aspect of the art, and developed a second generation of Tatkuntou kickboxers. This group did not practise the Iron Hand and other techniques in the original syllabus.

    The Manila group suffered a setback when some of the instructors got involved in a bar brawl that turned deadly. Boy Ursal fled Manila. Later Yuli Romo became associated with Kali Ilustrisimo and was recognized as one of the top practitioners. Rolly Tadefa parted ways with the club and founded Arkibo (Arnis Kickboxing). The Manila Tatkuntou group basically trains in kickboxing, and the curriculum is different from the one found in Cebu. I think it is headed by Doming Catampatan, a former Tadefa student.

    Meanwhile, in the mid-80s, grandmaster Joe Go continued to refine the art. From a hard, powerful style, it became a softer style that relied more on timing, strategic movement and bodywork. One of early pioneers in this new style was Boy Muana who fought a top student of a famous Kung Fu instructor and a co-developer of Lapunti de Abanico Eskrima, grandmaster Johnny Chiuten. Boy accidentally killed his opponent using the improved version of Tatkuntou.

    In my next installment, I will narrate what happened when a Tatkuntou stylist met a YawYan stylist. Rolly Tadefa of Tatkuntou had average kicking skills (comparatively speaking), but was a better and stronger puncher than his opponent. Emilio Zapata had average boxing skills (again, comparatively speaking) but superior kicking ability. In terms of size and physical conditioning, both fighters appeared equal.

    The superior kicker, having stronger and longer weapons, will have a greater chance of success IF he can fight at long-range. The superior puncher can win IF he can neutralize the kicks and move into the infighting range. How did Rolly Tadefa take advantage of an inherent weakness in Yaw Yan to beat Emilio Zapata at the Rizal Coliseum in 1984?
  11. Viking

    Viking Valued Member

    Hi Bayani,
    Is the grappling stuff on Yaw-Yan Ardigma is from Brazilian Jujitsu or from Dumog the philippines own grappling art.What about the street fighting techniques inYaw-Yan.Heard that itz called Yaw-Yan combat.Can you give some explanation on this.
    Thank You
  12. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    As for Master Nap's grappling backgound it's Japanese based with his own "twist" :p on it. There is a street version of Yaw yan compared to the ring fighting version and that's where you have the Y-Ycombat term. Street tactics for street rules. I remember when they were training to face Muay Thai and most of their training was for the ring and a study of how Muay Thai fight and trained. This same method of study applies when they teach their combat or street fighting- there's no bell, no ref, quick and effective compared to the ring training and this includes weapons training as well. But like evertyhing that becomes much time do you plan to devote to make it work for you? MOst YY train for the ring and not Yaw Yan combat not to say they don't but it's not the primary focus compared to kali where weapons training has a lot of time devoted into it.
  13. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Rolando Tadefa: King of the Ring

    In an era when many martial arts practitioners stuck to only one or two styles, Rolly Tadefa cross-trained in several combat arts. He fought briefly as a professional boxer in 1973. Aside from a solid background in Tatkuntou, he also trained in Shorin-ryu Karate with Jun Caballero, Balintawak Arnis under Col. Timoteo Maranga, Kali Ilustrisimo under Antonio "Tatang" Ilustrisimo and a few other styles.

    Rolly Tadefa's fight record from 1976 to 1984 was impressive. He gained a reputation as a hard-hitter, ending 70% of his fights in KO or TKO. He fought in national-level tournaments as well as against foreign opponents. He defeated an Australian national Karate champ under full-contact rules. He once fought an Afro-American who stood at 5' 10" and who outweighed him by more than 30 pounds. Tadefa stands only at 5'4'' and fought as a bantamweight. The American was KOd by Tadefa's famous punch. Another Afro-American fell prey to Tadefa's kick-counters; the same kick-counter techniques that defeated Emil Zapata years later.

    In his later years, Rolly Tadefa worked as a driver-bodyguard. Once, at another work, he dispatched three knife-wielding robbers. He was once challenged by another undefeated fighter. Sizing up the situation, Tadefa saw that the opponent was tough and it would be a very hard fight. He declined to fight an unofficial match with little rules but the man was insistent. Tadefa obliged and smashed the opponent's eye socket with an elbow, blinding the man permanently and sending him to hospital for a month.

    For the record, Rolando Tadefa's fight record is:

    National Full-contact Karate Champion (1976-78) sponsored by Channel 7 "Karate-Arnis Pilipino"

    Bantamweight Champion - 1st National Kickboxing meet at the Rizal Coliseum

    From 1976 to 1984, Rolly Tadefa was unbeaten in full-contact matches. By 1984, he was a hardened veteran of the ring who had beaten larger opponents, and was undefeated in the ring. This was the Rolly Tadefa that the younger Emil Zapata of Yaw Yan was to face at the Rizal Coliseum in 1984.

    After Rolly Tadefa beat his Yaw Yan opponent, he fought a few more exhibition matches and then retired undefeated in the same year. His retirement created a vacuum that was soon filled by younger and upcoming fighters.

    Rolly Tadefa parted ways with Tatkuntou and created his own school he called Arkibo, blending ARnis and KIckboxing.

    My next installment: "A photo is worth a thousand words."
  14. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    A Picture Speaks Louder than a Thousand Words

    Click below to see the photo taken the instant the referee declared the winner of the Tadefa-Zapata fight 21 years ago. The photo is quite old, but I hope that this picture will settle the issue once and for all.


    I would like to take a survey of your reactions. What do you think of the photo?
    a) It is an obvious fake.
    b) Zapata is undefeated; therefore, the referee was wrong
    c) Tadefa is the one who is wearing the YawYan shorts
    d) The photo is untampered and authentic

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 29, 2005
  15. BatongBuhay

    BatongBuhay Valued Member


    e? this photo was taken in an alternate universe with a different reality?
  16. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Speakee d plain Englis, pls

    You mean you agree this photo is authentic, untampered and taken at the actual moment, don't you?
  17. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Greetings Red Bagani,

    Your posts in this thread are very interesting. I have some thoughts on the photographs. These guys are definitely Indonesian and the ropes look just like the ropes of sasana Bulungan in Jakarta. The darkish colour of the background is also exactly like Bulungan. These are Indonesians. To me they look like the 1970's boxer Wongso Suseno from Malang, East Jawa, and my trainer Pepen Sabur in the 1980's (with trousers). This is unreal for the two never met and are of different generations.

    Because of that, and because the referee looks exactly like the Jesuit priest in my highschool in Yogya, Central Jawa, I can form the opinion that this photo is obviousely fake. These three people never met in the ring.

    However, I do realize that sometimes people look the same. So this might be a real picture and not doctored by someone who has photographs of an unknown Yogya Jesuit being referee to a famous Malang boxer fighting an unknown Bogor pendekar. If this is the case the photo still does not prove who won. In Indonesia I have seen several fights where the referee made a mistake and lifted the loser's hand, plus many more fights where the looser's hand is lifted as well.

    Kiai Carita.
  18. burungkol

    burungkol Team Yaw-Yan

    thank you for your compliments, you bet i will. :D

    Your photo seems convincing. Judging thru the picture, i could this say that it's authentic.
  19. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    that's actually quite funny. your post made me laugh for a good 5 minutes. how can you tell the referee looks like the priest from your highschool when you can't even see the face. lol! :p

  20. Brunstick

    Brunstick (^_^) I need a girlfriend

    this photo was photoshopped! yeah, that's it! it was photoshopped 21 years ago and released on the internet! :rolleyes: haha!

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