Tibetan internal art of Boabom

Interesting point. I am not sure that the relative number is so small.

At present times... yes.. but there extenuating circumstances... actually unfortunately there is primarily only one extenuating circumstance. Chinese occupation of Tibet and all the abuse and marginilazation of ethnic Tibetans that it implies. Additionally Chinas policy of forced sterilization etc. are well documented.

China introduced a policy of forced retirement for monks by the Chinese government. Retirement of monks was previously unheard of in Tibet... so it's drastically changed the numbers. In addition to the imprisonment and the destruction of temples and monasteries... I believe the number is probably the lowest it's been in Tibet.

Prior to roughly the 1950's I believe the number of monks in relation to the general population was quite high.. perhaps as much as 20-30% of the male population.

At any rate I digress... Tibet can go to the head.

 

<<When you studied with Bon Po Ngapa and Lama's was this in Tibet or in the US? Do you know if the Ngapa and/or the Lama were originally from Kham?


Quote:
The problem is good luck finding aBon master that will tecah his familys martial arts!!



How did you arrive at a situation where they agreed to train with you? I am assuming that the Bon Po generally excludes training in whatever their martial art is.

What did the Ngapa and the Lama call the martial art that you likened to wrestling/tai chi?>>

You can study Yung Drung Bon in the US

THere are a few real tibetan lamas.

http://www.ligmincha.org/

ligmincha they have a good school

I originally started my Bon training with Lama Khemsar he is from Sikkim

www.yungdrungbon.com

Although I spoke to all my Lamas about martial arts I didn't do any Martial training with them persay just Yoga meditation, prayers, qi gong, Tantric healing.

With my Bon teacher I didn't do martial arts with him I studied Dzogchen Ngon DRo, Tsewang "long Life Empowerment, Dzogchen Meditation, Zhine, Dream Yoga, Tsa Lung Trul Khor (Tibetan Yoga & Qi Gong).


Although if you train with him be careful he is a bit "Cultish". He knows his stuff but he is a bit Pschizo and he is the real deal when it comes to Bon Black Magic. SO BE CAREFUL. There are better Bon tecahers out there than him.

Also check out CHristopher Hansard he is a real Bon Doctor and has knowlegde of their movements for healing and martial Arts.

Since training with him I have also recieved empowerments by Gelug Lamas, and I recieved Yeshe Sogyal Dzogchen Green Tara Practice from a great Nyingma Lama his name is khempo yurmed tinley rinpoche. He just recently passed but he came to my school to teach Yeshe Sogyal Dzogchen green Tara practice. He was very laid back and extremely open about information, tecahing Etc.
check out his website.

https://www.khempo.com/

Remember one thing if you seek out training with Lamas.... They are human like us. A lot of times people get carried away and fantasize with their masters and thats when things get CULTISH and STupid. I am sure as things develope more in the USA more Lamas will be willing to teachg more "esoteric practices" For example 10 years ago NO ONE WAS TEACHING TSA LUNG TRULKHOR. Now there are many lamas sharing those secrets.

So be patient I am sure eventually real Tibetan Martial practices will come out more and will be seen. You can see it in the traditional mahakala dances and in Bon ceremonies. Some of the moves in those dances are clearly Martial.

Oh yeah on another note their (bon Po) Qi gong practices seemed more like Really intense Martial art warm ups and Yoga. Its a bit ballistic.
They are not down slow and everything is done with heavy emphasis of holding the breath till the last movement and then releasing. Great for clearing all psychic and energy channels. Some of the excercises I trained with my Bon teacher are actually in QI GONG EMPOWERMENT by Shou yu Liang. Infact that book if VERY ACCURATE.


Peace

Silatyogi

 

Well, if 20-30% of the male population used to be Buddhist monks wouldn't that support my earlier statement that Tibet's culture values pacifism maybe more than any other?

 

<<Well, if 20-30% of the male population used to be Buddhist monks wouldn't that support my earlier statement that Tibet's culture values pacifism maybe more than any other?>>

That maybe in the last 100 years but they used to be a big empire and a war mongering nation. By nature they are very competitive. Even in the monestaries. Have you ever watched them (monks) debate??

Also ask any Lama he or she will tell you LAMA means one who loves like Mother & Father or guide or Shaman like priest.

 

No. Not in the context that you were applying it. As in that all Tibetans are pacifist therefore it's unlikely that they had or would develop a martial art of their own.

Again one can draw a comparison with Shaolin monks in this respect. Bhuddists but still able to develop a martial art. Or for that matter the Thai Bhuddist kingdoms that still managed to develop the various Thai martial arts and fight many many wars with the Burmese and the Khmer Empire.

Good case and point. Which shores up my point that they didn't manage to stay and thrive in such a geo strategical hot spot by chanting mantras all day.

LOL! And yeah I've seen some of the debates... I thought it might break into a brawl. Lots of foot stamping and hand slapping and dramatic gesticulations.

 

There is more than one style of Tibetan Martial art, I know that one style is like wrestling, another is soft with circular movements like Baguazhang and involves much internal work, another involves much training on Mandelas (foot work) following lines etc

I know that Tibetans are very secretive about there martial arts and I was told that even Tibetans that do practise them deny that they exist. So yes it will be very difficult to find a teacher.

 

Here's my contribution...

(Same Site)
http://lionsroar.name/uk_lineage.htm
http://lionsroar.name/site_map.htm
Pictures (one of many - found on the site map page) - http://lionsroar.name/lesser_crane_set.htm
Combat pics - http://lionsroar.name/classical_san_sau_gallery_1.htm

...are just a few examples, but the site is a vast (and a little messy) goldmine of info on this topic and some others (including the Yeti).

Questions about the site should be addressed to Steve Richards. I have read his stuff on other forums and he seems very knowledgeable. He's based in the Merseyside area.

 

As far as I know, they are also rare in the East (Malaysia, Singapore etc)

 

What is your question about Boabom? Btw it is pre-Tibetan or originating from "Bod".

 

Okay, so, no one in this thread has actually been to tibet, and I have, so i'll throw my two cents in. First of all, you are correct, many of the 'tibetan martial arts' are actually gong fu posing as tibetan arts for the aforementioned reasons. The statement about the martial arts coming from pre-buddhist Tibet is only partially accurate. Tibet became buddhist under the rule of a warrior-king, (think conan in terms of brutality), and it happened by royal decree, so practically over-night. It is unwise to think that the arts were simply abandoned immediately.

The book 'magic and mysticism in tibet' sheds light on the practices of these arts a little bit. The Bon Shammans did indeed practice martial arts, as did the buddhists, for much the same reason that Shaolin did orginally. Tibetan martial arts were supposedly practiced in the monasteries up until the utter decimation of the land by our good friends in red. Myannmar, Nepal and the surrounding areas all have martial arts that they trace back to tibet, and all these martial arts seem to have some things in common:
Weapons training made up the bulk of these arts. Specifically the staff and cludgel, as these closely represented the items used by the Bon when performing their magic rituals. The techniques of these styles are typically very straight-forward, and are meant to dispatch people in quick succession. Kata-ish forms still exist in the Burmese martial arts.
A high degree of emphasis on what most of us would call neigong, or internal training. Specifically in the realm of meditation. The meditation rituals of the Tibetan buddhist monks have been well document. At one point, the US military had invested a significant amount of money in trying to train soldiers to use meditation techniques similar to the monks to keep their bodies warm when they were downed in icy water. Ultimately this proved worthless, as it takes about 10 years to build this kind of ability.
The empty hand side of tibetan martial arts is similar to the weapons work in the fact that it is straight-forward without any of the flourish that most martial arts have today. Think of the one-step sparring techniques we've all done thousands of times. Kata are again practiced here.

Now, how do I know this you may be wondering?

Well, Earlier this year I did a bike ride from Tibet to Nepal and flew back into China. During this trip, we (the 8 of us on the trip) got lost on our way to the guest house we were supposed to be staying at, stopped and asked for directions and were told to take a path that we had apparently missed a few kilometers to the rear (mind you, i've no ability to speak tibetan, and once you're out of the main cities, i.e. Lhasa, that's all you hear.) So we back-tracked, and found the trail, the trail took us up a good hundred meters through a rocky pass, and as the light was getting dim, we saw a fire below us. Which we assumed was just someone cooking dinner or what not. Anyway, we continued on the trail, which wound almost all the way in a circle, and finally came to a smooth/flat clearing, very close to the fire, and by now it was almost completely black. we continued biking and we saw people doing 'exerices' by the fire as we passed. The tour leader said something in tibetan to our local guide, and the guide replied. I assume he asked 'what are they doing', because after the local guide replied, the tour leader told us "Guys look, they're doing tibetan martial arts"... at which point i demanded we stop and watch. the rest of the group consented, and so we rode a little closer, and the local guide approached and spoke with the people (i think it was three, two practicing one watching) if it was okay if we observed. After about what seemed like 5 minutes, the guide motioned us over and told us to sit on the ground.

The next half hour was one of the more memorable parts of my life. I witness them doing sparring, grappling, kata's. Eventually the group asked us to leave, and by that time we were about 1.5 hours behind schedule anyway, so we took off. During this time the local guide explained, and then our tour leader translated, pretty much everything i have said about tibetan martial arts above. I kept asking things like 'well, what about meditation, i heard they can do incredible things, like put out candles from across the room' etc. most of which the tour leader couldn't translate. I did ask where it originated, if it was related to shaolin gongfu, china etc, and I got a resounding NO to all of the above.

Point being, tibetan martial arts are out there, they're not as rare as you think. Keep in mind, the people living in the country side have little knowledge of the modern world still, and tend to keep to themselves. Can't blame them after everything that's happened in the last 100 years.

 

I have something to say again on the art of Boabom. Everyone that wants to look at a picture and a website and base what they believe upon that and a few tidbits of text they read off the internet is insane. While we're at it, we should all go to the bookstore and pick out a book with the shiniest brightest cover, because, it's probably the best.

Boabom is very focused around breathing and like you said silatyogi, holding and releasing... "One breath dies, another one is born", etc. Irregardless what you have studied is very interesting to me and I want to know more about it. Not too long ago I investigated a bit further and went to one of the original Mmulargan (boabom) schools in Vina del mar, Chile. It is real, that is all I can say. Now that I have been practicing for several months I really want to expand and try some other arts involving energy cultivation - qi gong and some tibetan styles of yoga. Have you heard of an art called Kum Nye?

Silatyogi - tell me more about tsa lung trul khor? Thanks... Btw the form of "wrestling" and "tai chi" is called Chin-Na, I believe.
(http://www.shaolin.nl/chinna.html)

 

Ancient Tibetan Masters

While many are fascinated by simple yogis who devote themselves to compassion and wisdom, and delight in the welfare of sentient beings, it is equally interesting to observe the western interest in ancient Tibetan fighting styles. I read with great interest those who claim knowledge of the Bonpo fighting systems.

As a lineaged follower of Yogin Kuup Sum Chenpo's family style of martial arts, I have been practicing methods like "Gyakpa Gyokpo" and "Kyi Labsong" for the past thirty years. You see, I was fortunate enough to stay in remote Himalayan hermitages through much of the 1970's, where I was exposed to these mystical arts that will necessarily involve daily practice. In Asia, Kyi Labsong resounds with a thunderous roar. Gyakpa Gyokpo is an internal technique that expels toxins and fortifies the internal system. There are many other techniques. Mastery of one is more important; from there we progress to the level of "Nyonpa Rangtong" which is the inherently empty nature of the mind, after all!

If there is interest, I shall share with the readers more tales of my humble journey in the world of internal Tibetan gung fu systems. Many stories are permissible to share, although not the one about my use of "Tri Ringbo" to ward off my opponnent, a formidable fellow by the name of Pachu.

 

Back to the original post...the website appears to be down now...

 

ancient secrets of Tibetan martial mastery

Staying in Nepalese hermitages in the 70's, I encountered Bon and Kagyu mystics who were masters of rare internal martial arts. They passed the secret traditions down in an unbroken succession of a lineage called "Minduk."
Those who followed this tradition were sometimes called "Nyonpa."

I did encounter a famous master of "Gyakpa Gyokpo." He was also known for his style of "Kyi Labsong," similar to the "Pachu Labsong" that is a little more well known in the inner circles. As my experience deepened, I developed a sense of oneness and harmony with my surroundings. As I would practice the moves of Gyakpa Gyokpo, I felt a sort of cleansing and release.

When I did "Kyi Labsong" I seemed to hear the echoes of it reverberate all across the Kathmandu valley -- a real sensory experience that was disconcerting, but perhaps not unusual among mystics residing in Nepal.

While I have not heard of Baobom, I can heartily recommend Yogi Kuup Nyi Chenpo as the most authentic master of Gyakpa Gyokpo. That said, it seems these days the yogi disguises himself, wearing ordinary trousers and a wrinkled old tshirt (some say sporting the logo of an american beer company.) He never washes, yet never smells.

If you would like to hear more of my journeys in the secret world of Nepal, I am happy to relate some of the tales. You can post questions to the forum. I will respond as candidly as possible.

BTW, I am by no means a master. I don't teach. In fact, I once accepted a blow from an unruly hooligan rather than demonstrating my skills in public! After alll, he punched like a girl and I thought it was more compassionate, in that instance, to simply take the punch! The reason I could not avoid it was, to tell the truth, I was a bit drunk and he approached from behind, and as I said, I am not a master.

-puddlebornvajra

 

Yeah, I'm gonna need confirmation that your stories are legitimate. Names, places, etc, current instructors and practitioners, that sort of thing. Just the facts, ma'am.

 

confirmation

This was the Nepalese hillside in the 70's, dear brother. Yogi Kuup Sum Chenpo has since passed away. He is survived by his son, Yogi Kuup Nyi Chenpo. I will ask permission to give you his email. Please be patient.

I am not aware of any other westerners trained in Minduk. In short, I seem to be the only western Nyonpa. And please note I never claimed mastery; much the opposite. I could not claim to be a competent Nyonpa, but I do aspire to competency.

There are other trainings I went into in greater detail; the Bonpo sexology and holistic health teachings, which led me away from martial practice. Later in life, I gravitated to the essence of the path, the teachings of Dzogchen. I am happy to share more with you. I am not aggravated by your direct and inquisitive nature; indeed I respect it as one of the traits we look for in potential Nyonpas.

 

Good to here. I look forward to your reply, my friend.

 

Yogi Kuup Nyi Chenpo

Mad Monk,

Chenpo was in Boudhanath and was able to respond quickly by email. I am sorry that his reply may not be all you had hoped for. I cut and pasted Chenpo's reply below.

"Me sick now too much. Now am old man not well. This samsara like this one day come one day going. Everyone minduk know this. Now long time I not hear from you. Old man wonder how is son. My life passing. You come quick see me Nepal if can do it. Today leave Boudhanath for village."

You see, when Chenpo's son passed away, the yogi drowned his sorrow in alcohol. I think it affected his health. It just goes to show that even a highly evolved master has a human side, and may have his failings. Its very rare to find a master who is a perfect Buddha, one like the Karmapa Lama or His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Chenpo is my Minduk master, but I know he is also a human being. That said, due to his life's compassionate service, I am sure his rebirth will be fortunate. I do pray he stays in this world a bit longer, as I would like to see my old master in Nepal.

 

i leave for nepal tomororow

I've booked my ticket. I leave for Nepal tomorrow and may be unable to respond to any inquiries for awhile. I regret that, while Chenpo is ill, it would be inappropriate to entertain inquiries about Minduk from the old master. Its more important that he should either recover his health, or enter the bardo fully prepared for the transition to the next life.

I am reflecting on Chenpo's life. He is hardly known at all. Despite the chance for fame and fortune had he capitalized on western fascination with tibetan eosterica, Chenpo remains largely unknown even in Nepal. I myself must rely on some of the lamas to track him down...as he likes to keep his whereabouts secret in the real tradition of a hidden yogi.

Its a bit sad to know that a great master of Minduk is about to pass on, but to tell the truth, there is good news. The tradition of Yungdrung Bon is very strong worldwide, and the pinnacle teaching of Dzogchen is very accessible. This is much more important than the martial arts....even old Chenpo says so.

As my connection to Chenpo is through both the Bon and Kagyu teachings, I will invoke Tonpa Shenrab for my master. I also invoke the glorious lineage of the Kagyu lamas; Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa, and Gampopa....to shine the auspicious light of the pure Buddhadharma into the hearts of all beings.
Minduk is not. But the teachings of the sages will live on, so long as men and women of compassion and kindness seek their true nature...which is radiant love and compassion for every living being. When the real power arises...genuine compassion for all living beings...then every vestige of form (martial or spiritual) falls away in the realization of the inate clear light. May we all awaken to that. And, I thank Yogi Kuup Nyi Chenpo...who set me on the path.

 

Sorry but the whole amount of stories above sound like total BS.
The supposed response from an elderly Nepali sounds as fake as a three dollar bill.

Man you people need to stop living in your fantasy worlds. Or at least stop posting them here at MAP. :bang: