Hi All, Would you comment on whether you have found Judo throws effectivefor self-defence? Does the need for kuzushi (getting the opponent off balance first) to make Judo throws any less effective cause any problems? Are wrestling throws (or other throws) better for self-defence? I am focusing on standup grappling not groundwork, and trying to determine whether some Judo training may be useful for self-defence or whether I would be better with wrestling or some other grappling style. Thank you!
In my opinion Judo and wrestling are pretty even in the self defence stakes. Its the knowledge and understanding of how your and anyone attacking you's balance, weight and body movement act in a clinch situation that make them good for self defence not necessarily there individual techniques.
Thanks for the quick response. So does that mean you are better off simply trying both systems and seeing which suits you best, rather than trying to compare techniques at a technical level?
I would say to not only "try", but actually work on one for awhile then move onto the next. You really cannot get a good comparison nor any good understanding of either if you only "try them"
Good responses so far. Both Judo and Boxing are really geared towards self defense. Both apply a no-nonsense approach. They both have little if any spiritual baggage and they both tend to stay away from idol worship of the instructors. So that makes it appealing to many. If your focus is on standing then Judo is most likely your best bet. Primarily because it's far more accessible than is wrestling if you are not in a high school or college that has a program. And even then it's very groundwork focused. As 47 martial man pointed out... it's important to get a grounding in one or the other. Just scratching the surface usually doesn't do it. The ideas or concepts in boxing and judo are not a million miles off from each other. Timing, entry and balance are big big concepts in both styles.
Just as a note, you'll need to unbalance someone to mount any effective takedown. It's not exclusive to judo, it's a fundamental part of any grappling, standing or otherwise.
judo and wrestling share many takedowns as well as the concept of unbalancing. heck so does aikido an every grappling. do either judo or wrestling and work on SD style situations
The wrestling single leg or double legs may be faster to execute. But if you miss that leg, you may end in an uncomfortable position. If you "press" your opponent down, when he resists (trying to stand up), you then borrow his upward force and throw him, you won't be in any dangerous if you can catch the right timing. The more that you can give, the more that you can take.
In a SD setting judo shines. When playing judo with a judoka, so much is to do with tricking uke to react in a certain way to set up the throw or combination If some random attacker launches a commited attack there is no need for subdefuge as your uke will, in thier attempt to grab or strike, put thier balance and thus themselves at toris' mercy. All tori need do is chanel the momentum of uke.
I may break the mould here and vote for Judo rather than -both equal-... ..purely because Judo includes Gi work. While we are talking about pure "self defence", I think an understanding of how clothing can help and hinder your grappling is a MASSIVE advantage. I'm a reasonably competent No-gi grappler but when I roll in Gi with BJJ, Judo or JJJ guys I am often quickly reminded of all the things that you can and can't do when grappling in loose sleeved clothing, that you wouldn't and would be able to do in rash-guard and shorts.
For the same reason somebody might say Wrestling BECAUSE there is no-gi. Thus a more realistic standard of training. Not that I'm saying that, I'm just kinda playing devils advocate xD
Because so often in life both the assailant and yourself are dressed tight spandex when fighting. In all fairness that's what I used to think, however I now recognise that most "trouble" is going to happen when at least one of you is dressed. And chances are those clothes that you are wearing while waiting in a cue for a club or walking home from work aren't skin-tight (designed for grappling) rash guards.
H'mm, but then you have to allow for the relative insubstantiality of most clothing, even a fairly robust hoody will rip when used like a Gi, which changes the result of the technique all over again.
Clothing isn't going to tear off you like the hulk, even if it does rip it will more likely than not just lose its form but still remain attached to your body. To actually tear away -and completely free yourself from someone who has gotten a good two fistfuls of even an office work shirt requires a good bit of force. So I don't think "clothing rips" is such an easy dismissal of Gi work. Seriously even simple level drop takedown gets stuffed by someone holding onto one of your lapels and pushing against you. What is a safe position in No-gi is easily threatened by gi chokes etc etc Clothing isn't a massive game changer, the mechanics stay the same but certain concepts and techniques come in to play that complicate matters. If I want to hold onto the sleeve of your hoody in a clinche, I can stump most -if not all- of your attempts at under or over-hooks just by holding my arm out and down. Likewise if you get hold of my jacket and apply a quick gi choke in the clinch, it's lights out for me. These are just some of the tricks and tactics that appear when dressed. Considering the technical efficiency of Wrestling and Judo aren't too far apart from each-other the fact that Judo will teach me how to deal with other peoples clothing and teach me grappling habits that will help me minimize the disadvantages of my own really does tip the scales for me. Assuming all other factors are equal.
