Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by phatfire, Jun 26, 2006.
I was just wondering about everyone's thoughts on Krav Maga.
the portland school sucks
run by a ATA TKD husband and wife team
the guy is a wannabe who teahes Bas Rutten's System
i.e. a MMA teaher that has never had an MMA fight (or even active student)
the wife is a poor MAist.. and she has gave hubby his BB in TKD (which he does not even deserve)
the KM system can be good.. but many franchises simply suck... the one in your area blows... one of the worst in the nation I'd say
I recommend heading to team quest across the river
great training to be had there
edit - for KM opinions.. please use the search function.. the art has several threads where those of us who study or teach it have posted
Better in the UK
Fortunately, my experience of training in krav maga is rather better than that, but good experiences are always down to a good instructor, as opposed to a good style.
Krav maga is trying to expand, so there are some folks who've got away with instructing despite imperfect skills
I feel very stongly that this is a great shame, because it will damage the style long-term. BJJ seems to have solved the problem by allowing blue belts and above to instruct; it's honest and you know the skill level of your instructor. This spreads the system without demeaning the value of a BJJ black belt.
Krav maga apppears to have two sets of grades: P1-5 for non-instructors and G1-5 for instructors. If you're unsure how good your instructor is, I'd ask what P grade they reached before embarking upon being an instructor. This would give you clarity about their expertise.
OOPS! For a more correct explanation of P, G and higher krav maga grades, scroll down to Krav Maga Grades here:
What a coincidence, the KM school here in Nebraska is also run by a husband-wife who own an ATA TKD school.
to be fair.. it is another KM school in OR just outside portland (used ot be one now there are four there) that sucks... not the one the OP asked about.. I contacted him in PM to clarify... nice to add it here to not unknowingly bash another teacher that may or may not be great
but yeah.. husband and wife team's generally suck
ATA ones... RUN!
Sorry, but I can't even see why krap maga is even discussed on a martial arts forum.
KM is nothing more than a stupid "self defence" course for young women who want to feel like they have some means to protect themselves, but are unfortunately being duped!
Perhaps in it's original format KM was a viable fighting system for the israeli military, but now it is nothing more than a make money quick scheme.
Oh.... but because some daft celebrities have endorsed it, it's got to be the "best form of self defence"!
It falls into the same category as:
kateda Self defence
look TaiChi boy
you have NO place throwing stones, lol
you are misinformed.. grossly so
please see www.krav-maga.com (international)
and www.kravmaga.com (US)
www.combatkravmaga.com (another org)
educate yourself on modern fighting systems, military martial arts in general
then return... and retract your ignorant statement
edit... for those of you cusious about what becoming an instructor takes:
Sorry, but I stand by my original statement.
Like all "ladies self defence" systems it attempts to teach young girls to poke the eyes out of attackers or grab their family jewels, both of which we all know are very difficult to do, especially for a woman without many years of training.
It is a massive marketing strategy that is I admit very successful, but it is nothing more than that!
Thanks to IKMF for this info
Here is the combined curriculum for all the different grades/levels together with those of the various instructor courses offered by our organization. The curriculum is divided to subjects (units), most of them appear here only by name.
KM levels is divided into 4 sections: Practitioner Levels (1-5) ; Graduate Levels (1-5) ; Expert Levels (1-5) ; and Master Levels (1-3)
In some places/countries KM students carry the "regular" colored belts.
(Units 1-4 are here in some details)
Unit 1: General Information and Theory
History of K.M. and of it's founder
Dealing with a dangerous event:
State evaluation, process of dealing with an event
Neutralizing a danger and all its aspects
Possible outcome of a violent conformation.
Principles underlying the defense techniques.
Principles underlying the attack techniques.
Training by principles - from techniques to real life variations
Using common objects for self defense -theory and practice.
Rhythm and pace.
Using /relying on natural reactions to correct or prove a point.
Principles and techniques of mental training.
Unit 2: Teaching Methodology; Human body
Basics of anatomy and physiology.
Correct instructing for instructors.
Lesson plan outlines & preparing.
Teacher student relationship.
Unit 3: Preliminary Considerations
Safety in training
Organization of training: methods of training
Dress and appearance
Maintaining the studio
Behavior during training
Exercises and variation
Approach to stretching and flexibility
Unit 4: The Basics
How to stand - different outlet stances
How to Punch : The basics use of body's weapons; make a fist; Theory of recoiling
Movement and shadow boxing
How to handle a fall
Fall breaks backwards & from high position
Side fall breaks
Soft/hard forward fall breaks
Rolls forward - high, low, sideways,
Rolling with assignments, Combinations of rolls and fall breaks
(The following units appear here by the subject's name only)
Unit 5 - Attacking with the Hands
Unit 6 - Attacking with the Legs
Unit 7 - Defenses against Punches
Unit 8 - Defenses against Kicks
Unit 9 - Releases from Grabs, Chocks & Holds at high level
Unit 10 - Releases from Grabs & Holds at medium level
Unit 11 - Releases with Throws
Unit 12 - Release from holds & grabs on the floor
Unit 13 - Leverages & Takedowns.
Unit 14 - Defense against attacks involving a stick / club.
Unit 15 - Defenses against attacks involving a knife (edged weapons).
Unit 16 - Defense against threats involving a knife (edged weapons).
Unit 17 - Defense against threats involving handgun.
Unit 18 - Defense against threats involving Submachine gun.
Unit 19 - Using common objects as weapons in defense against armed assailants
Unit 20 - Self defense against two assailants or more (armed with knife/stick or not armed)
Unit 20-25 - Military training units
Unit 26-30 - Law Enforcement training unites
Unit 31-33 - Additional units for Security and VIP Protection
Unit 34 - Self-defense for Children - Applications and transformations of the basic techniques and training methods for children.
Unit 35 - Self-defense for Women - Applications and transformations of the basic techniques and training methods for women.
Unit 36 - Fighting Drills.
Units 37-38 - Fighting Tactics and applications.
Unit 39 - Fighting in different positions & places.
Unit 40 - Ways and applications of mental training.
Unit 41 - 44 Training Methods for the above units.
Unit 45 - Simulations and scenarios, analyzing and training accordingly.
so angelsweet.. you seem to have an agenda... so.. this will surely not affect you.. however.. to the host of others seeking accurate info on the style... please see the above sites or feel free to PM me anytime
btw.. unit 35 (bolded for you) is far more involved by itself than your assessment of the art were that the sum total of the system.. you'd still be dead wrong
I don't know what KM is like today, but when it first made it's appearance as an openly available style I was very excited, until I looked at the nearest school. It was pretty much what Angelsweet describes and the instructors didn't seem to be very experienced with MA or self defense, though they certainly opened a posh studio in an expensive yuppie neighborhood. As I recall the prices indicated that they were very impressed with themselves though.
Now to be fair, that was years ago and I admit it turned me off enough that I haven't been back to check out any other schools. If it isn't just a marketing scheme to pimp boxercise and false self-confidence under an impressive name to people who are unlikely to ever need to protect themselves I would be really interested to give it a second try. My understanding however (from people who seemed to know what they were talking about), was that commercial KM as opposed to the Israeli military version had been really watered down and wasn't really intended to do much besides make money. If I'm incorrect please correct my ignorance. I had really wanted to like what I saw but was incredibly disappointed
i have never met the seattle instructors. if you want info on them and their program the forum on the kravmaga.com site would be a good place to ask. filter what is said, because they tow th eparty line pretty heavy over there....
KM is a full art... and unless you are in LA, NYC, ST Louis, Miami, or Toronto.. the training can vary.... the above cities all have an actual Head guy at them... someone who is internationally reknown.... sadly, the francisces are inconsistant in training quality... and it could very well be the schools in seattle blow
i recomend looking at the locations on the site
make sure the instructor has at least one non-TKD BB
or is at least 3rd dan in TKD
as well as has finished ALL 3 phases of instructor training
if not... no chance of it being decent (yet)
ideally.. you wan tto ask if they have done continuing training and if they are certified to teach level 4 & 5 and certify the test results?
if they say yes to 5.. they lie (only the cities above have the ranks need to certify that)
they should be able to test at least through 3...
if they can test through 4.. they are probably ok
if they have attained level 5 themsleves.... it will be good training
there are notable exceptions.. but the above will give you some idea
sorry.. thats all the help I can give you
oh.. and it it is also an ATA school.. RUN don't walk
In NY there are some very good instructors, ex Israeli military etc etc. Of course there are lame instructors as well.
for NYC instruction:
david or rhon
both are amazing
Thanks for the reply. I was actually in the Phoenix area at the time and I'm currently investigating a job offer down there again, but that was a long time ago and there may be another better school open now. The questions you recommend will prove really helpful if I do find another school to check out.
Firstly, I do hope you're not being sexist about women.
Secondly, have you actually trained for a period of time in krav maga? My last krav maga class showed its military colours by including 'milling', which far removed from what you suggest.
Like every martial art, the quality of instructor dictates how good the training is. In your area, krav maga may merely be well-marketed hocus. In my area, it's a great class.
My own background was originally in full contact sports (muay Thai and kickboxing), but I now train in krav maga. I also served with the Guardian Angels in the early nineties, with the odd scar as a lasting reminder. And I've done a couple of British Combat Association courses with Peter Consterdine and Geoff Thompson. Why on earth would someone like me bother with krav maga, if it was taught as you suggested?
Every style has the good, the bad and the ugly instructors. Krav maga is the same as all other arts in that respect.
I think it completely depends on how its taught/who teaches it/and why they teach it. There is a krav maga studio here in St. Louis, that caught my attention. The guy who seems to be very qualified(and i dont doubt it in this case). What they teach seems legit. I own a school of my own, and i was tempted to go learn from him(and get certified to teach). But from what i can tell, I still dislike how its marketed. They do appeal mainly to women and offer many classes(that they claim to be experts on that I do doubt). I disagree with the whole "girl power" concept of it. I do think it is great for females to learn as well as males, but the advertising towards them is overdone. And it seems not so different than any other martial art i've studied. The only difference is it seems that people can learn it much quicker, and there are no set technqiues/ or katas. Basically its seems to be similar to the system that I teach. (my own streetfighting system).
From what I have seem Krav Maga looks really good, i might train in it soon.
I'm looking to learn it.
I've been around the block with MA. Right now working on a a mixture of Eurasian Kickboxing, And BJJ. Background in TKD and a small touch of hapkido. The only thing i really like to pay for is tution to schools. No selling me a belt.
Anyone know of any good schools in texas?
Separate names with a comma.