This isn't the same video Mr. Martinez posted, but I would like to hear your opinion.

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by onpoint, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    [ame=""]Pekiti-Tirsia Kali - Real Combat Blade Fighting - YouTube[/ame]


    I'm seeing only 1 and 2 strikes (and their reverse) from a considerable distance, but when Mr. Waid and company move into the short range, there's a pause (almost like a deer in the headlight pause), then they either just break or they haphazardly execute a disarm or close quarter strikes.

    Does Mr. Waid have better close quarter techniques straight from the long distance or is this pause normal throughout (from long to short range)?

    There are a lot more bothersome movements and techniques that pepper the video but I'll leave that for others to comment.
  2. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

  3. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I see what you're talking about. And I'm sure I look an awful lot like that myself. I'm sure there's some blending that can be improved there. But I think it's also a function of the format. Our own Pat has been kind enough to provide video of he and Lucy doing CQC drills where she gets tagged in the head a couple of times and he takes a solid shot in the nuggets. That happens. And I don't particularly want a "training dagger" in the eyeball any more than I want a real one. So, at that range, I think it's appropriate and necessary (with that equipment) to ease up a bit.

    The alternatives are to 1) slip into a prescribed drill, which would improve flow but fail to address the randomness of an actual exchange or 2) change the gear out to include protective head gear and/or different training weapons.

    Perhaps neither gels with the "real, authentic Filipino art" angle. I don't know. But I personally would enjoy more training with sparring equipment of various sorts.

  4. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Branding and Market Strategy

    I'd look the same myself, Stuart. And I agree with you.

    Exactly, do something at least. But that transition from long to short (showing mastery of FMA) should look representative of the art you're trying to promote. Whether done with prescribed movement or done with protective gear, perform the techniques/movement completely and correctly.

    With all the superlatives this particular group uses to sell their product, at the end of the day, they are no better (or worst) than other FMAs. As far, as "true", "real", "authentic" is concerned it's the same can of woop ass with different branding (and marketing strategy).
  5. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Close Quarter techniques

    If you guys don't mind, I'd like to bring this issue up again, hopefully get Kagete, kalimutan or Blindside (even nasigoreng and shoot) to share their opinions, since there were no takers last go around.

    (from the grapevine) Tuhon Tim's just returned from a bunch of seminars, and it seems the attendance rate has doubled, there's a good chance people are choosing sides and voting with their attendance.

    I know there's a lot of "we're the BEST, ever" dogma within PTK, so their blinders tend to be on, so the question of why there's such of lack of action once they are close in, is a good way to better Tim's practice--help him & his students peel away from PTK proper, like Tom Bisio did in the early 80s.

    Here's a more recent video, same initial critique:
    [ame=""]Chicago Kali with Tuhon Tim Waid (Pekiti-tirsia) - YouTube[/ame]
  6. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I have a question about that clip. In one section it's titled 'lost training methology'.

    My question is two fold.

    If it's lost how do they know it?

    And surely if they are showing it's not lost?
  7. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons for their drama, Pat.

    It's too much propaganda about "lost", "authentic", and other bs claims. And Tim was just following the example of GT Gaje, which is really ironic.

    Ain't no lost or authentic here, they're just swinging the sticks around like anyone else, but my point is...

    unlike anyone else in FMA they seem to pause (like they don't know what to do) when they close in, then unceremoniously just disengage, as if there's nothing worth learning or doing at that range.
  8. kalimutan

    kalimutan Valued Member

    Onpoint and Pat Omalley, could you please post a video of yourselves moving and striking in free play? Otherwise I don't understand your critiques.

    First, this is very basic technical sparring using the five attacks method going from contact to contradas. In portions of the clips, they slow and pause to acknowledge a strike and also a pause is given to make a strike available to the other person to recognize and take advantage of. This is not completely free play, there's a level of cooperation here, that's why it's called it's technical sparring as opposed to full contact sparring.
  9. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Not from me, mate. ;)

    I understand technical sparring, but have yet to see anyone in PTK do this, in which close quarter techniques are blended in at that range. If there's one, please post it--if it's a secret, I'll understand. But none from Tuhon Buck, Tuhon Waid, nor Tuhon Mel.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  10. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    I'm thinking Tuhon Tim and GT Gaje were out drinking and Gaje tells him, you know Tim, I've stopped teaching the Doce Methodos, the authentic one, you are the only one that I've taught the lost Doce Methodos to.

    And Tim just runs with it.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pat has clips all over the place - his credentials are beyond reporach and beyond question
  12. kalimutan

    kalimutan Valued Member

    I don't know if you do or you don't. You say you do, then show us how it's done. You can meet Tim or any of his guys at any seminar and ask that question directly. Then we can video you showing how it's done and we will post it on youtube for everyone to see.

    What do you mean by close quarters techniques? Please show me a video of what you mean, preferably of you executing the movements. I want to be clear about what you mean.

    Please show me another group doing free play/flow or technical sparring. My experience with other FMA is limited. I'd like to see others moving and striking and flowing. Show me it's not lost. Please.
  13. kalimutan

    kalimutan Valued Member

    Please show me.

    Omalley is beyond reproach and question, really. Show me examples of his god like ability and knowledge.
  14. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I'm not in FMA but am fully aware of Pat Omalley

    It wasn't rocket science :rolleyes:
  15. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    [ame=""]Tuhon McGrath at Corto Range[/ame]
  16. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Don't get too defensive, bro. All you have to do is explain why PTK stops suddenly when they get at corto range.:rolleyes:
  17. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Onpoint...If you keep posting this kind of stuff, people might think you have an axe to grind. ;)
  18. kalimutan

    kalimutan Valued Member

    hey bro... I'm only asking you to show me.

    Showing McGrath doing stuff in drill flow to the finishing in close quarter is not even the same as the technical sparring flow on 5 attacks as shown by Tim.
  19. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Not an axe, a blade. :cool:
  20. onpoint

    onpoint Valued Member

    Negative, ghostrider. :rolleyes:

    What's the difference between drill flow with a corto finishing and technical sparring flow without. And why is only Tuhon McGrath shown doing this, was this a lost method as well?

Share This Page