Discussion in 'Karate' started by Pretty In Pink, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    That’s a fair point , maybe reel it in a little to the agreed realistic stuff. , like ura zuki (upper cut) mawashi zuki (roundhouse/hook punch) and the like.
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    And you're allowed 5 seconds on the ground to strike. Awesome! Interesting how the lead hand is not the main tool. Counter rights all day!
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  3. BohemianRapsody

    BohemianRapsody Valued Member

    I get your point but I think there’s a common sense solution to it. Like, Jitte has the finger strikes to the eyes, but even though it’s traditional karate you wouldn’t use those in a competition.

    Just adding elbows, knees, full leg kicks, and allowing hooks and uppercuts would be enough to open up the striking to emphasize techniques that are lost in kumite.

    And since there are no submissions and only 5 seconds of ground striking allowed it definitely wouldn’t be like the early UFCs.
  4. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    If only this was the karate at the next Olympics.

    I’d not heard of Karate Combat before. I haven’t read the rules, but it seems a little bit like the nearest Japanese equivalent to Sanda (a positive for me). Interesting that Karate Combat is recognisably karate too - as opposed to kickboxing under a different name - which I like.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  5. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Joe Rogan with Bas Rutten, plenty of talk about Karate Combat on there:

    It sounds like the rule set is still flexible, so we may see a change in the current rules.
  6. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Next event coming this Friday:

    I think the rule set will need refinement and balancing tweaks over time (what competitive rule set doesn't?), but I'm still tentatively excited for what this could become, and how it could trickle down to how Shotokan karate and other similar TMAs (ITF taekwondo, tang soo do, etc) are taught at a club-by-club level.

    I certainly don't think that every single karateka needs to compete in something like this to be able to get something positive out of their karate training--especially when you're talking about people who are doing karate to get back in shape, to overcome physical disabilities, to have fun with their grandkids, etc. But I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. I left JKA Shotokan when I was preparing to drive across the state of Oregon to go to a weekend kumite workshop, and I learned that the entire workshop would be entirely no-contact.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  7. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Did anyone tune in for Inception? It was way past my bed time :D

    Edit: I found a recording of the stream - looks like a few issues in the broadcast, starts about 41 minutes in.

    Knee Rider and BohemianRapsody like this.
  8. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Lifesaver! Just realised I had missed it and checked here hoping some footage had been put up. Thanks for posting this.
    EDIT. Just caught on to what you said. Wondered why the YT footage was not working...Doh
  9. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Unbelievably bad technical error leading to the tko in the first fight and can't help but think it's a training issue.
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    What time in the video?
  11. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Around 56mins ish
    David Harrison likes this.
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    They don't seem very good at defending against punches. I guess that awareness will build over time if the sport continues.
    Knee Rider likes this.
  13. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    More proper sparring needed for that particular fighter, if nothing else.

    Edit - just watched second fight :/
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Looks like there is a bit of an issue with wka sport karate and 1) reaching for punches 2) dropping the hands 3) blitzing in with the chin up and exposed.
    Fish Of Doom and David Harrison like this.
  15. BohemianRapsody

    BohemianRapsody Valued Member

    I remember watching an interview with Lyoto Machida years ago where he talked about it taking him some time to find his style in mma. And iirc his early fights in Brazil he kept his guard up and close like a boxer.

    Anyway, my point in all of this is I think, or at least I’m hoping, it’s just taking some time for the fighters to adapt their games to the new format.

    But I hope they do adapt their games so we see karate combat not kickboxing in a YAMA pit.
    Knee Rider likes this.
  16. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    it'll be interesting to see for sure.

    As far as I am concerned, this format highlights the flawed ideological perspective that has dominated the full contact point karate format and the adaptations needed are less to with incongruities between sporting contexts and more to do with the gap between this style of karate and reality.

    I think there is a good reason why karate engendered kickboxing and why all the knockdown karate styles essentially look like kickboxing (without head punching in some instances) and judo.

    I personally wouldnt mind if the kickboxing elements ended up shining through a bit more though, as karate based kickboxing/striking has a different flavour to other styles and it can be pretty exciting, technical and aesthetically pleasing to watch.
  17. BohemianRapsody

    BohemianRapsody Valued Member

    I agree with not minding if kickboxing elements show through more, but if it ends up looking like those old PKA fights then it seems like the evolution of the sport is to jump back thirty years.

    I really hope they add elbows, maybe with elbow pads, knees, and leg kicks. Probably a pipe dream but then at least it would have the full range of weapons theoretically available to karateka even if most places spend little or no time practicing them.

    Which would also keep it from just becoming kickboxing...

    But might make it evolve to look more like Muay Thai...

    Then again Muay Thai doesn’t allow for the range of takedowns that’s this does. I noticed more than a few double leg takedowns, so maybe that would be enough to discourage the tradition Thai stance.

    Lastly I agree about the flawed idea logical perspective of point fighting. I remember reading somewhere that ideology followed ruleset. Like they borrowed the kendo ruleset, then kind of reasoned why it should be that way. I also remember reading sport karate was created in response to the growing popularity of boxing- or at least people watching boxing matches- at the time. I’ll try to dig up the source for that but it’s been awhile. I’m sure there’s people who know more about it in this board than I do.
    Knee Rider likes this.
  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Watched the full event in Miami. Overall, enjoyed it. I think the first-round knockouts may diminish as they get used to the rule sets. It succeeds in having a different feel than other popular full connect fighting sports. Circular punching featured much more prominently than in the last event, but it still felt like karate to me.

    As a side note, I found all the trash talk before fights ("he looks like a punching bag," etc), the entry in a Rolls Royce before walking down an aisle of Lambos and Ferraris, etc all very distasteful. I much, much prefer the stoic respect you see in, say, the Ukrainian Kyokushin tournaments that the Odessit Youtube channel publishes so many of.
  19. BohemianRapsody

    BohemianRapsody Valued Member

    It’s funny, I just skipped ahead to all of the fights. Literally didn’t see any of the trash talking or the rolls...

    But yes, in principle I agree. I find the trash talk and glitz in particular kind of distasteful. They might be pushing it because that kind of thing draws an audience nowadays...

    But I hope they drop it.
  20. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    My other beef about all the lead up to the fights is the continual reference to karate as an "ancient art." Guys, it's about as old as basketball.

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