I wanted to do a thread about one of my favorite boxers of all times.. Willie Pep. To start it out... here's two absolute gems... the man is one of the smartest, toughest, fastest boxers that every stepped into the ring. He did it all in an era when the talent pool was crazy deep!!! Prettyboy Floyd my ass. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quAvMC5DZPo&feature=related"]In This Corner - Willie Pep - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4aUnUVLWdQ&feature=related"]Willie Pep interview (RARE !!) - YouTube[/ame]
Excellent, thanks for posting this Slip. Hit, move, angle off and constantly readjusting, never in range of the opponent, but always close enough to get his own shots in. A constant process of hit and away. Double and triple jabs, which turn suddenly into lead hooks, very nice. It really should be that simple and it is how we train, we don't of course quite pull it off like Willie Pep. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq09V2AeKvo"]Willie Pep vs Ray Famechon - YouTube[/ame]
Amazing sense of timing, movement and change of pace. Never heard of the fellow before, but he is almost a roll model boxer for me i.e. I am skinny, move around a lot and go in and out.
If you consider the amount of fights he had over his career.... it starts to show how little our supposed 'boxing champions' of today are fighting. It's just insane. Willie Pep had brilliant movement. I don't think you'd find near any boxer in this weight class today that could deal with him. They just don't make them like that anymore. Times have changed enough that the fighters of today simply can't fight often enough and a wide enough field to get the experience they need to deal with somebody like Pep is going to bring. He had an amazing ability to turn his opponents.
To anyone coming from Aikido, TaiChiChuan or similar - where movement is critical - and getting the opponent to turn off balance is critical as well - this fellow is an amazing example. Maybe Koyo looks at this vid every now and then.
Koyo sensei and Willie Pep could very well be having a cold one together right now and comparing notes.
I can identify with Willie's game plan all too well. Im sure there are other game plans as well. What maybe an interesting thread topic for the experienced ring fighters (as I am 52 there is not a lot of hope for me!), is some discussion about the game-plans, strategies and tactics of ring-craft. Then that leads into how does one train for this type of situation. Also worth mentioning is the stamina, fitness and conditioning necessary to constantly meaningfully move around like Willie for 13 odd rounds.
Let's not forget Pep was also one of the only boxers who ever won a round without throwing a single punch. When he fought Jackie Graves in 1945, he told everyone to watch the third round as he'd win it without throwing a single punch. That round, he basically made Graves look like a child swinging at a fly and won that round on all three score cards. Simply amazing. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a_wt60Wn9M"]Willie Pep HL - YouTube[/ame]
One of koyo's great quotes was 'dont get hit'. Pat O'Malley said the same thing back in an epic JKD thread :- 'dont block with your face.' 2 of the UK most well known martial artists read the same script as Willie.
One of the big things in terms of his ability to develop this ringcraft was the sheer depth of the pond back in the day. The numbers in attendance show just how paltry the fight promotions these days really are. Much of this was prior too or just at the start of television. So going to see fights live was still incredibly popular. The paydays back then for top fighters were astronomical if you do the math. I can break out some figures once I get back to the gaff and can show just how much these guys made. Funny enough... their methods were relatively rudimentary by comparison to todays standards of fitness training. Size and musculature was overall much smaller in the heavyweight division. This topic has been batted around for a very long time by many old timers who had been in the game and around the game long enough to have seen fights as far back as the 20's and 30's. As time travels forward we are fast losing that generation of boxing afficianado. Medicine ball, skipping rope, some weighted cable work (see pic of Jack Johnson below) and roadwork were the order of the day! To me the biggest difference overall was the depth of the talent pool and the frequency with which fighters fought back then. Compared to the fight schedules of today it was non-stop. Jack Dempsey worked a fair bit of manual labor so he'd have been fit without a doubt. There were overall more manual labor jobs back then for the classes that fighters came from then there would be today. Working on the train tracks and in foundries and lumber mills will make you lean and mean. Anyone who's ever spent time in a logging camp can attest to the fact that there are just tough folks who work those lines. These days... not so many of those jobs left around. Steels pretty much gone, as is mining, as is logging and the railroads are a thing of the past.
Our generation is too encumbered with television, internet, mobile phones, pop music, game consoles etc to be bothered with a simple heavy-duty daily workout - myself included.
Much of this is true. It becomes harder and harder to train hard. And if you dont have a regular fight schedule... finding the motivation to train that hard is not often an easy thing to come by. The body is different at 30 than at 20 and at 40 than at 30 and so on and so forth. Hormone wise and biochemically it produces substances in different ratios... motivations are different... mentality and outlook is different. Time waits for no man as they say. I realize it now more than ever.
Just found this thread its awesome,thanks slip. Willie Pep was brilliant and one of my favourite boxers,Benny Leonard was also a fav of mine over 200 fights 183 wins and over 70 knock outs
I love telling people about Pep's winning a round without throwing a punch. I also saw one of his matches with Saddler that was dirty as hell. At one point Pep actually executed what could be mistaken for an Osoto Gari! Pick up the Boxing Book of Lists, by Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar, and you'll see Pep mentioned dozens of times. It also clued me in on guys like Benny Leonard who I might not otherwise have heard of.
Yeah man both Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar would know. They saw many of the real greats fight. The old time fighters knew dirty fighting backwards and forward. I think that level also has been in decline for a long time.
if I recall correctly,that fight is considered the dirtiest big name fight in history. I think as soon as they started getting cute the ref told them "If that's the way you guys wanna do this...." or something like that.And let 'em run wild. Now if one wishes to actually see Judo in the ring Benny Leonard's the man.Talk about blatant!
With a recommendation like that I just HAD to go and hunt this one down. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpKHFZ6ixKs"]Willie Pep vs Sandy Saddler - YouTube[/ame] It's a highlight, not the full fight, but plenty of the nasty bits appear to be left in. What really got my attention was a BEAUTIFUL headbutt at 7:38. Truly, a gentleman after my own heart. :love: On a completely different note, it never ceases to amaze me that with footage like this being out in public people can harp on about "sport" with "rules;" when a blind man could see who would really be in trouble once the rules ceased to apply.
Just watched this video and thought to share. Great footwork and together with this very good music becomes as entertaining as a good dance : [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9aEURJrgpw&feature=related"]Willie Pep Footwork Highlight - YouTube[/ame]
