The weight of weapons... is it just me

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by TheCount, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    This is starting to really bug me right now. I see people in reinactments and so on, or in real life for this matter, holding and handling swords with reletive easy. Such as on the antiques roadshow, this guy is valueing a sword collection and he picks up a 42" rapier and handles it with absoloute ease despite being about 50. He then handles a scottish broadsword. Now, I know I'm not the strongest of people, but I couldn't even get the blade up when I heald a scottish broadsword, and when I see swordplay... I'm left wondering how in heck do these people swing about a weapon that I would think was quite heavy.

    Is it just that I am incredibly weak, or that the weapons I have held just happen to be really quite heavy
     
  2. Capt Ann

    Capt Ann Valued Member

    Not sure, but I know that with broadswords especially, display replicas are often very thick and heavy compared to the actual historical swords, which weighed about 3 to 6 pounds.
     
  3. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Valued Member

    Without knowing your size or general physique, that's really a tough question to answer.

    If you are shorter than average and are what is termed a 'late developer' it may just be that you've not come into your strength yet, so to speak.

    Plus, as Ann says, it may be that you've just handled very badly balanced display swords and that's given you a false impression.

    On the question of perception of strength, I'm only average sized (other than round the middle these days :eek:), have a sedentary occupation, don't work out and, because of a bike accident, have lost half the muscle from my 'sword-arm' - despite all that, I still have no trouble at all making it through a three hour Iaido session.

    All this is just speculation of course, so, if it concerns you that you may have a physical problem, it may be best to consult your doctor and so get a qualified opinion.
     
  4. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    I am 5'6 and weight about 115lb, which is average weight for my height. I am in good health in general terms. I own a stainless steel full tang katana which I can handle reasonably well, however when I tried a proper balanced Iaito it seemed to dance rather than cut.

    I suspect I have handled some badly balanced swords... but in the end shouldn't the basic principal still be there?
     
  5. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    OK, I dear say that you have encountered a bad sword. They flourish :cry:

    As everybody "knows" that "katanas" weigh 0,2 kg, can cut through Challenger-tanks and never bend nor break, the ones making "fake-katanas" never make (too)heavy katanas, as the common market won't accept them.

    For WMA-weapons it's the oposite (exept for rapiers). The "Hollywood knowledge-based commonality" + fantasy-spin-off-products; have made sure that everybody "knows" that an european sword weigh at least 10 kg, and that they were used as axes. As a result the ones making "fake-WMA-swords" can make heavy fake swords; people might actually suspect it for beeing fake if the sword weighs less than 2 kg :rolleyes:

    A proper hand-and-a-half-sword/longsword should weigh between 1,5 and 3 kg. It should have the balance point between 10 and 25 cm out from the crossguard. When you find a sword with this characteristic, you will find that the sword will be easy to work through any "kata" you do with a "katana" (-just watch your head, as this one will have a crossguard that might hit your head :p )



    This happens to everybody when they pick up somthing that have different balancepoints/etc. If you start drilling through the kata and give your body 30 minutes to get to know the sword, you'll see that the "dancing" (i interpret that as wiggeling?) will ceace and that the blade will start moving in straight paths through the positions.
     
  6. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    I mean more like the one I current have, felt a little clumsy and off balance. But this Iaito seemed light and whippy and moved much much better, it was prettymuch an extension of my arms.

    I will see how it goes and maybe try out a proper Practical Rapier or something somewhere, or perhaps a rapier with a Schaegler blade
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher New Member

    I'm a pretty big and strong guy (6'5" 230lbs) so I purposely picked a big longsword with a longer handle. It's a Pavel Moc Embleton Style and it weighs in at 1.8Kg. We are very close. ;)

    A typical blunt longsword for martial arts use weighs in between 1.2Kg and 1.6Kg. Sharps are a little lighter due to having a lot less mass around the edges. The most important thing is the balance of a sword. Two swords the same weight can have a radically different feel depending on where the centre of balance is.

    What you probably held was a stainless steel wall hanger sword. They tend to have a lot of useless mass, especially around the ricasso. Forget about anything in stainless steel, it's not a real sword. :)

    There's a low res pic of our swords on the equipment section of our web page. Link below. :)
     
  8. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    If your sword is too heavy. Do a 1000 cuts a day (if you have time). In a short time it will feel a hell of a lot lighter.
    If not, it's not the weapon for you. Find something that you body is comfortable with.
     
  9. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    Beware the atendenitis, though! There is allso discussion wether it's any point in trilling postas and cut-angles with a sword with wrong weight/balance, as it makes the body accustumed to the wrong factors.

    My advise is
    *Contact a group practicing what you want to learn
    *Decide wehter this is a hobby worht spending money and time on
    *Start training
    *Listen to your groups/teachers advise when it comes to buying sword (The swordmarket consists 90% of crooks and cheats :eek: )
    *Then start doing 1000 cuts a day (with an instructor).
     
  10. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Good Points Stolenbjorn.

    I think it was in mushashi's writings (heavily paraphasing) "I would be more frightened of a man who did 1 cut 1000 times and a man who did 1000 cuts once".
    So to add to my advice. Keep it simple when starting out and get good at the "basics" it will stand you in far better position than becoming a fancy sword waver.
     
  11. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    since when was 115 pounds average for a 5'6 guy? you must be a twig. this is why you can't swing a broadsword. my brother owns a few authentic swords- he is shorter than me, about 5'7, and fairly built, about 170 pounds. good body shape for it. you might be better suited to something like a butter knife.
     
  12. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    LOL!

    Call of the year. Butterknife. :D
     
  13. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Evil! :D

    Would love to see the reinactment;

    Broadsword vs buttefly knife
     
  14. Louie

    Louie STUNT DAD Supporter

    Claymore

    I imagine your talking about the two-hander claymore broadsword rather than the basket hilt type??

    The two-hander was designed to cleave through chainmail & armour so it used the edge rather than the point. the wielder combined sword weight & momentum to cut through skulls & limbs...
    It was usually only the Highland Chief's champion or bodyguard who would carry such a weapon, swords being too expensive for the ordinary clansman who would normally rely on a farming tool or the dirk.
    In Scotland this type of sword was going out of fashion by the late 1600's

    Louie
     

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