Just a question. Would you consider someone trained in Firearms a martial artist, all be it a long range martial artist. The conception these days is that you could mix MA and Firearms, at least in the movies (the matrix, equilibrium,etc). Can a Martial art be brought up to date with the inclusion of modern weapons... Tae kwon smith and wesson. Heckler and koch kung fu winchester jitsu. Just a thought that passed through my head. Brought on by my purchase of a Walther CP88 Pistol. (Don't worry folks its a CO2 powered Pistol - to help with any vermin problem i may encounter at the farm - though it is strong enough to drive a metal slug through a tin can and out the other side at 30m!!!!) :woo: :woo:
I think it would depend on the level of specialized training the person had. Personally I don't see very much "art" in pulling a trigger.
In movies like Equilibrium, the only reason they can do all that blocking stuff with the guns is because they are so close. Usually in a gunfight you're a hundred or so yards away. At that distance, if both parties have good aim, both are dead. No way you can dodge a bullet. At least out of the Matrix ...or IS this the Matrix??? edit: I've been thinking, and if you look at snipers, their use of guns IS almost a martial art. They have to have the correct breathing, have incredibly steady hands, and be able to clear their minds. Not only that, but they must do all this rapidly, and then move on to the next target, before he's detected and shot at. However, I must admit, sharpshooting is a much easier "art" to master than wushu or taekwondo.
I'd say close-range gun work is part of martial arts. Disarming techniques, etc, and all the hoo-ha you see in films like the Bourne Identity...it's no different from knifes or sticks.
A fight is a fight. The weapon is secondary to the person. Gun, knife, stick, fist, it's a fight. Omi, just as much "art" in manlipulating and using a firearm as there is to merely swinging about a stick or sword. Commander, gunfights are very often close affairs, well inside 100 meters. "On the street" at grabbing range, if not beer-breath range. BTW, your views on snipers would be different if YOU had to hump and crawl with that gear.
No I wouldnt consider them a martial artist but it is probably a skill that people should be comfortable with. At the very least becoming familiar with guns will make you respect their deadly power. Firearms training is very "martial" and thats what really matters from a self defense point of view. Not how much "art" there is to it.
Why not? If it is an olympic sport, why not a martial art? I know there are practiced skills in it, especially if the target is moving and you are shooting in uncontrolled and variable conditions. I think one of those SWAT type snipers are true artists in the way they can calculate distance, wind factors, movement, time their exhalation, etc. I am a little less sure of shooting at static targets indoors, but I'm feeling generous - why not?
I suppose you consider those little girls flipping the ribbons around the mat athletes also? HMMM, do you? No shooters aren't MAtists, just someone pulling a trigger. By the way, I do think the girls and the ribbons/balls/hoops were kinda cute. Not really athletes, but cute.
What about men in white Pj's twirling sticks? Shooting actually requires decent physical conditioning, and considering the number of Buhda bellied black belts I don't think athletics is something that anyone can use to show its not... Target shooting is like kata, In fact Kyudo calls it kata. Yet no one asks if Kyudo is a martial art. Shooting is not considered "eastern" which is why so many refuse to call it a martial art, wrestling and boxing get the same thing... Wow... all those guys that hang out at paintball ranges all the times are really dedicated martial artists. Hey! I got a plan! I could start an association and sell them black belts!
unless your in the military, gunfights are rarely over 30 yards away. i think the average distance is like 15 or 25 yards away.
well let see First lets ask ourselves whether using a gun is a martail or warlike activity. Im pretty sure all here would accept that it is in fact a a martail activty. So the second question is it an art. Well hmm thats a bit harder. So in the dictionary one iwll see that an art is a skill practice by humanity, but maybe thats not enough . So.....howmany here actually target shoot show of hands I do and its about as diffcult for me to hit things witha gun as it with a bow or a rock or a knife. Shooting a firearm is simple but so is throwing a punch or swinging a stick. Doing correctly and consisitantly correctly especially while under a stressful situation thats teh hard part. I feel that anything that requirees you to practice it until becomes insticttual under a combat situation thats it what makes a martial art. But then aain I also consider military tactics and logistics, fighter jet pioleting and artilery use to be martial arts. and Andrew Green makes a very valid point so many people only think that if its eastern is it a martial art. Which is ratehr silly becasue the term was in use for centuries in reference top teh fightign arts of western Europe
Shooting is, without a doubt, a martial art. Let me wax cheesy for a moment, moreso than usual. Let me pontificate on the similiarities between the romanticized gunslinger of the Wild West and the roaming ronin of fuedal Japan. Let me note that many Western movies, and many Samurai movies, are copied directly off each other. But, as far as the average martial artist is considered, this is only media and fiction. Allow me to point out the shooting involves, yes, stance work. It, yes, involves physical conditioning. In addition, it requires mental conditioning. There are different schools of theory in the world of firearms, in addition to many styles of application. Many people today would happily dribble in awe at the feats of a kyudo master, but would scoff at similar feats performed with a long arm. This is, to me, the height of hypocrisy. If you believe there is nothing to shooting than pulling the trigger, then please go to your local shooting range and give it a try. Also keep in mind that this is a far cry from actual combat, whether a rifleman at 300 yards or a SWAT team in a close-range engagement. It is true that they do not wear a gi, nor do they earn belts or sashes. They do not bow to pictures of their grandmaster, and they fail to offer incense up to the indigenous gods. They do, however, focus on refining a certain method of combat to levels of artistic precision... which, I think, has something to do with the whole "martial arts" gig. I may be wrong.
The proficient of any weapon is a martial “art” as in artisan (a creator of great skill in the manual arts). If you consider yourself an martial artist (like painter/ sculptor = performed for the aesthetic value) then no a weapon such as a firearm has very limited value.
I was thinking about this question the other day. I think people dismiss shooting as an art because it A. Lacks that mystical eastern appeal. and B. Uses technology that isn't typically considered traditional like the sword. I think the level of coordination and mental clarity required to be a good marksman elevates the skill to an art. As Cudgel pointed out earlier, anyone can swing a stick or throw a punch, but it takes skill to do it properly. This thread makes me want to play paintball...
about Equilibrium ... one problem I had with their hand-to-hand gunfighting-- with those pistols going off that close to their faces, wouldn't those guys be deaf? Wouldn't they also have powder burns all over their faces from those muzzle blasts next to their heads? Sure looks cool but I'd rather keep my hearing and my skin.
