The Other Side of SILAT

Discussion in 'Silat' started by IndraMuda, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi ALL,

    Up to you to interprete the chart attached.

    Hope I didn't make any mistake. I am not familiar with attachement command! If I did, I apologize.

    TQ
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2006
  2. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    What is POWER?

    Hi All,

    Hope by now most of you have digested the “Chart” and realize that our final outward act [ eg. Kick etc ] is not just physical or “ it is just merely a kick ”. Subject to individual’s terminologies and whether one realize it or not, every action or “Effect” has its “CAUSE”. As to the orderly succession, let it be understood that the events are “CONJOINED” like relations between the condition and the conditioned.

    Certain conditions are very apparent and can be known easily even by men of little understanding. There are conditions which are understood only by those who see through the “ light of intuition ”. Hence the common error of miscalculating the uniformity of events.

    There is a “ divine purpose” linking the antecedents to the consequents and manifesting itself in the existing orderly succession of events, without the least breach or irregularity. Only those “weak” in knowledge or understanding have misunderstood and misapplied the word “ POWER ”!

    Ask yourself why most PESILAT in most of the forums that I have been into strongly denying the the existence or the relationship of “spiritual element” or “religion” or “POWER” in silat. Without “POWER” are we alive today let alone BERSILAT? Trying to cover up their own weaknesses in the total understanding of silat? Worse still it comes from a brother malay and muslim. Only Allah SWT knows best!

    In short, Allah SWT created life, knowledge, will and action, on the one hand, and the other an order (a system) external to them. HE imposed the order upon the items.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  3. Moridin

    Moridin New Member

    What I meant by that is Silat was practiced a long time in Indonesia before Islam was introduced and therefore Silat does not owe its history to the coming of Islamic teachings to Indonesia.

    Exactly. And don't claim Pencak Silat for Malaysia as the root. Silat is such a big family, spread over such a big area and so old we can not say. What is Silat? Hundreds or maybe thousands of styles. Where does it begin, where does it end? Have any of us lived for centuries to know everything and seen all history? Wake up.

    Everyone that truly knows Pencak Silat or Ber Silat knows that there are many cultural aspects to it that have NOTHING to do with Islamic or Christian beliefs!
    Many aspects of Silat have to do with what Muslims or Christians would call occultism, witchcraft, superstition or maybe even devil worship! Other Side of Silat? You should have called this thread Dark Side of Silat.

    Just because in some regions Islam is the main faith or became the main faith we can't say Silat = islamic. Islam is in fact a young religion compared to other religions. Don't claim everything, you haven't been around that long my brother.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  4. Abdullah1881

    Abdullah1881 New Member

    hi moridin,

    "Everyone that truly knows Pencak Silat or Ber Silat knows that there are many cultural aspects to it that have NOTHING to do with Islamic or Christian beliefs!"

    As far as i know, Indonesia has an 88% muslim population with 209 million muslims making it the largest muslim nation in the world. Im sure this is nothing new to any one on this forum.

    Since u TRULY KNOW Silat could u please share with us your KNOWLEDGE to validate your claim or maybe tell us which cultural aspects u are refering to in Silat so that we may increase our understanding of the subject matter.

    "Many aspects of Silat have to do with what Muslims or Christians would call occultism, witchcraft, superstition or maybe even devil worship!"

    I have met many Indonsian and Malay Pesilat over the years, and im sure most if not all of them would find that sweeping statement very offensive and untrue.

    It is clear to me that whatever IndraMuda has written, he has done his best to provide the knowledge behind it as to substantiate his claim.

    forgive me if i have misunderstood, but in your statements it is clear to me that you seem an authority in Silat, Indonesian Cultural Heritage and Religion.

    For the sake of healthy discussion could you please tell us the knowledge behind your theories and conclusions?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  5. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    One of the great strengths of Malay culture is its ability to syncretize and synthesize an amazing variety of cultural influences. There are pieces from India, China, Europe, the Arab world all added to old local traditions. Without that character Indonesia and Malaysia wouldn't be themselves. Kids learn Quran. People go to wayung plays of the Ramayana.

    There are undoubtedly things there that aren't explicitly Christian or Muslim. There's a lot in any culture that goes on outside the mosque or church - despite the best efforts of the salafists and their fundamentalist Christian counterparts to destroy it. Animism, Hinduism, Buddhism and other indigenous practices have certainly left their mark. You don't have to use emotionally loaded terms like "witchcraft", "Dark Side", "superstition" and "devil worship". Besides, they aren't really accurate.

    There are certainly people who go quite far in some strange directions. Sometimes it's destructive. Sometimes it's benign.
     
  6. Moridin

    Moridin New Member

    Tellner,

    you say it better and shorter than me. Thank you.

    Abdullah,

    1st of all. I am sorry for phrasing my words so that it seems that all Silat or styles of Silat have occult aspects. Sorry, i meant to say that there are many aspects that can be found with some styles and many persons that make this choice. I did not mean to make a sweeping statement nor insult anybody. Of course it is wrong to say Silat is generally involved with the occult. But you know that what i am talking about is out there. And it's not too hard to find either.

    You can repeat how many people call themselves Muslim in Indonesia/Malaysia and you are right of course. It's a well known fact. So what? Is there no other history or culture even now in those countries?

    When did prophet Mohammed get his message? How many centuries ago? How long ago was the Quran first written? Before people in those lands and islands practised martial arts?

    Islam is not the first, only and last thing of that area. Before Islam came what was there? Nothing? Or did the creation of those lands and islands in that part of Asia start with Islam? Were there no people living there before?

    Why should i tell you who told me about Silat? I have no need to brag about who i know or who taught me about Silat. I am nobody, not important. And i am certainly no expert. Besides, even if i never met Indonesians or Malaysians...there are these things called history books. I know how to read, so i can always get information about the cultural and religious history of ANY country at the library.

    Silat is too big for any man to explain or claim. I am certainly not trying. Like taking grain from a barrel we can only try and fill our hands. No man can hold all the grain in the barrel in his two hands.

    Peace.

    PS Colouring words red for emphasis is...annoying. A word = a word. You don't need colour to prove you are right.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  7. Abdullah1881

    Abdullah1881 New Member

    Hey Torro

    hi moridin,

    Im sure it was not your intention to offend anybody. U came in with a hard reply, so ofcourse others will too. My intention was just to gage your line of thought.

    Well you gave me the answer i was looking for anyway, I read your reply before you corrected it. I guess this one was better thought out. im sure u know the term "Lanka Mati" :D

    Now u know why the Matadors use RED! :woo:

    Peace!
     
  8. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Any history BEYOND this?

    Hi All,

    I DON’T MEAN TO DISRESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS!

    IF THERE IS ANY "HISTORY" BEYOND THIS, I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T KNOW!

    Isn’t ALLAH SWT (Sorry, I don’t know about other faith) is the first before even other creations (Including Malaysia, Indonesia etc)? Isn’t ISLAM His din? Isn’t Al-Qur’an is ISLAM? Isn’t the original copy of Al-Qur’an is placed in Luh Mahfudz at a place called Baitul Izzah? Isn’t Islam is first brought to this earth by Prophet Adam (well, I have no comment if science claims man come from primate lineage), through other prophets and finally by Arch Angel Gabriel (Wahyu / Intuition) to and completed by Prophet Muhammad PBUH? IS THERE ANY OTHER “FIRST” THAN “OUR” FORE FATHER PROPHET ADAM IN MALAYSIA, INDONESIA ETC? Isn’t Caine is the first to worship Idols and God of Fire? Perhaps the first deviation of Faith caused by Satanic influenced as Adam through Eves in the heaven (Enmity between Man and Iblis)? Isnt’t Caine is the first to be disclaimed to have any ties/kinship by his father, Adam? Isn’t Caine committed the first KILL which is the ultimate of Martial Arts or “SILAT” as most of you have defined it?

    Can any one of you out there recognize the word “SILAT” in the above chronology? How does one knows the above sequence of events - from science or historical literatures? How does one know the existence of GOD in the first place……science, history literatures etc?

    Lets us together provoke our knowledge of truth created by Allah swt!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  9. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    IndraMuda,

    First I could not see the chart it was to small and I could not enlarge it.

    Secondly, let me try to understand what you’re conveying? Are you saying the following?

    1. There is no Silat without Islam?
    2. There was never any Silat in the Malay Archipelago before Islam?
    3. There was never any other religions in the Malay Archipelago other than Islam?
    4. Islam was in the Malay Archipelago since the time the Archipelago was created?

    Just trying to clarify for my own understanding.

    Sincerely,
    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
     
  10. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi ICT,

    Once you open the file (Microsoft words) go to view command and click view 100%.

    With regards to your enquiries, letus hear the view from others because it is already at the CROSSED JUNCTION. People are pushing me to the WALL! I now have to activate the "KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH". I appreciate you asking it gentlemently and ,I promise ,I will let you know when it is at the right time.

    Should you still have problem in opening the chart, let me know and I will email it to you.

    Regards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2006
  11. Moridin

    Moridin New Member

    According to the bible Cain or Kain was the first murderer. He killed his brother in cold blood. Out of jealousy. His brother did not expect anything because murder and killing was something nobody had ever done. He told his brother to go somewhere together and killed him. Maybe even from behind while he was watching somewhere else.

    Kain did an evil, cowardly act. Silat is self defence or warfare. Not murder.

    Martial arts is self defence or maybe warfare. Not crime.
     
  12. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Moridin,

    Can u take my humble advise from the very bottom of my HEART? I LOVE YOU AND OTHERS ALL AND I DON'T WANT TO ACTIVATE MY KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.

    LET ME TELLYOU, ANSWERING THIS QUESTION IS THE REAL LEVEL OF "PENDEKAR". PLEASE LEARN........I HAVE HUMBLED MYSELF FOR 40 YEARS IN TRUE SILAT .........................

    PLEASETHINK VERY SERIOUSLY..........CALM DOWN PLEASE. THE ANSWER IS UNDER YOUR VERY OWN EYES BUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS YOUR OWN VEIL.

    Hamba Allah!
     
  13. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Hmmm

    Eve gave birth to two sons Qayin (Cain) the oldest and Hevel (Abel) the youngest.
    Cain did not kill his brother literally as you think. The word yaqam does not mean slew but means elevated i.e. Cain was elevated above Abel.
    The Lord set a mark on Cain and gave a warning that if anyone should slay Cain vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.
    The mark of Cain is a sign of sovereignty i.e. Cain being the eldest son was a priest king.
    That mark is known even today amongst certain groups of people.
    Qayin (Cain) was not the first to worship fire but qayin = metal smith was the first to receive and master the science of fire as was his direct descendants e.g. Tubal-Cain.
    But what of Abel? Abel = hevel = puff of smoke i.e. he never passed on linage and symbolicly his line was killed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  14. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Narrue,

    Very interesting...........

    Now, do you realise that history literatures have been forgotten and Holy Books become the main REFRENCE!

    Don't worry, I will make the manifestation when I received the correct "FREQUENCY".....INSYA'ALLAH.

    Hamba Allah
     
  15. asli

    asli New Member

    salam semua :)
    knowlegdge feast!!
    coming from Malaysia, nobody calls silat as Ber Silat..silat is just called silat..funny what a book can cause a big misunderstanding..i guess book alone is just not good enough to give any resource justice..

    IBA,
    i guess to understand ur view is to be able to willingly to understand truly deep islamic teaching, otherwise it's pointless..what is Islam? what is Silat? go deep..
    how do we move? who moves us? af 'al..i think i can see what u r trying to say, and im glad for that..but for those who are different in faith and believes, i guess it would be hard for them to digest what u have to offer..

    well, in the end, it turned out a really profitable and encouraging discussions.. :)
    salam
     
  16. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    WMussalamhiwabarakatuh

    Assalaamualaikum Brother asli,

    TQ for your appeance. Yes I agree with you absolutely but the truth has to come out. Somebody has to do it FINALLY. Otherwise we all in SIN! Please constantly check me of the path while i do it. Insya'Allah dengan izinNYA.

    Again, Assalaamualaikum Brother asli
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  17. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    IndraMuda,

    The truth is subjective. What is true to you, may not necessarily be the truth to me.

    The problem I have with your posts is that they don't focus on silat. It seems to preach Islam, with the pretext of silat as it's base. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    If you want to do this, there is a Religion forum on this site, where your posts will be more suitable.

    Nobody is saying that silat doesn't have a deep spiritual aspect, and I can assure you that I am well versed in the deeper aspects. However, these aspects are personal, and I cannot expect others to necessarily accept them as gospel truth, so I keep them to myself.

    Let me ask you a question, do you have any input on any physical aspects of silat? I for one, would be very interested in learning about your silat training, the challenges you experienced, training methods, etc...

    Regards,
    Wali
     
  18. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Wali,

    Your appearance always worry me. Am I going to be cane this time? :love:
    Answering your question........Yes, I do. But I am focuss to clear The Name first......which is SILAT!

    Regards
     
  19. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    Hi IndraMuda,

    I'm a big softie really... :eek: Let's be pragmatic and assume that the majority of people who take up silat, both here AND in South-East Asia, is for self defence. If they wish to pursue a connection with the Creator, deepen their religious life etc... they have Churches, Mosques, Synagoges, Temples, etc... that they can approach.

    By detracting from the martial aspect of silat, and choosing to focus on the spiritual from the beginning, you are putting people off from wanting to establish dialogue with you. Also, you need to understand that no everyone is ready to receive certain levels of spiritual knowledge, as they are not in a state to receive.

    The teachers I follow both here and Indonesia instill a very rigid PHYSICAL regime from the beginning, as this will help develop a deeper spiritual understanding later on.

    So, will you clear the name of Silat, and put us all out of our misery? :cool:

    Wali
     
  20. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    HI WALI & EVERYBODY,

    Wali TQ. I m going for my Friday Prayer in Kuala Lumpur. I can't promise anything up to HIM as I have no POWER. Inya'Allah, if every goen fine, I will release it after comming back from prayer. Today is 17 Feb 2006. The magic dayi s supposed to be 18 feb 2006. Anyway I will do my best.

    TQ.
     

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