The Other Side of SILAT

Discussion in 'Silat' started by IndraMuda, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Spirit & Soul?

    Hi Narrue and Others,

    Nothing to be a shame of being ignorant. I humbly accept my weaknesses if you think so. I to apologize to others at large for sharing my "Ignorant" knowledge in the subject matter.

    I have done my part to share my understanding on the different between Spirit (= Aql or Intellect or Reason or Intuitional Self) and Soul (= Divine breath which only God Knows).

    For my knowledge and, perhaps others, would you kindly share and elaborate your understanding on the different? IF the knowledge on the subject matter is your Silat trade or Spiritual Faith secret, I would understand.

    There is a malay saying: “Lempar batu sembunyi tangan”, translation: throw a stone but hiding your hand.

    At this juncture, I beg to reserve my views on your subsequent points as not to prolong the misunderstanding prior to addressing the key issues.

    As I have clearly mentioned in my earlier posting the subject of “spiritual entities” or “Know thyself” has been the cry by the ancient and the modern not only amongst Guru-Guru Silat, the intellectuals and, even, our Prophet (PBUH) particularly in addressing the issue in Morality and conduct because it is one of the determinant not only GOOD or BAD but also whether the “GATE” to Pure Knowledge (Mukasyafah) would be open or closed!

    Last edited: Feb 1, 2006
  2. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Think About It!

    Hi All Pesilat,

    Perhaps by now some of you (PESILAT) have beginning to realize something “SCARRY” out of the thread!

    For those who have been following the post and progress with: SERIOUS THINKING > UNDERSTANDING, beginning to realize where is the true source of “SOCIAL EVILS”, THE TRUE MEANING OF SELF DEFENSE”, THE CONCEPT OF SELF DEFENSE etc. The scariest amongst all is, “THE EVERLASTING AND CONTINOUS MOTHER OF ALL WARS CAUSED BY EMNITY OF THE SATAN AGAINST MANKIND”.

    QUOTE: Earlier post.

    In this way the heart of man is between the pull of the angelic and the satanic influences.

    By nature the heart is equally susceptible to the angelic as well as the satanic influences.

    Think about it…….I might be wrong!
  3. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Self’s Good and Bad Qualities

    Hi All,

    Back to Moral and conduct, the struggle for supremacy amongst the basic forces, Intellect on one side and Lust and Gluttony and Anger and Ferocity instigated by the satanic on the other, continually goes on in the human self.

    It is the equilibrium between them all, inclusive of intellect that results in qualities character which are conclusive to the realization of the ideal. It is this state of the self when struggle in it ceased and harmony prevails which is described by the Quranic phrase as: An-Nafs al-Mutma'inna : The Serene Nafs: The Nafs in Complete Rest and Satisfaction.

    But the disturbance of the equilibrium results in the predominance of one of them over the other, producing qualities which impede the progress of the self towards its goal.
  4. Wali

    Wali Valued Member

    My friend,

    At the risk of upsetting you, please let's keep the posts firmly on planet Earth.

  5. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Upset……..? Why………?

    Hi Wali and Others,

    TQ for pre-warning me.

    UPSET……..? WHY………! Am I going to get “cane” this time?
    Don’t worry about me, TQ!

    • Isn’t “Moral and Conduct” is part of good or bad qualities of PESILAT or PENDEKAR? Without which, who are they?

    • Isn’t that is the basis of Silat Culture (Budaya) and Tradition (Adat) as strongly expressed and emphasized by every practicing silat “system” or Guru-Guru Silat besides the physical: offense and defense etc?

    • Don’t you realize, even this forum has defined / outlined its own Ethical Values on moral and conduct, attempts to administrate and regulate the conduct of its participating members and guests!

    • IF I may ask with respect, what is your Silat’s Ethical (Moral and Conduct) System and guideline, can you share it with us?

    • Finally but certainly not least, Isn’t SELF that controls all the bodily functions of the organism and MIND is the source of all human activities on “planet earth”? Is PESILAT EXCLUDED?


    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  6. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Indra Mudra, interesting name what inspired you to use it do you read the Viking forum?

    Silat is just a Martial art like every other Martial art. A kick is a kick and a punch is a punch there is nothing spiritual about that. If you want to learn spiritual and internal aspects you don’t need to practice Martial arts to do that an example would be Yoga. Silat incorporated spiritual and internal aspects into it but I believe that they were mostly borrowed and at one time were quite separate. If someone has spiritual or internal skills it does not mean that they must have practiced Martial arts to get them. Silat itself is just physical.
  7. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Narrue and Others,

    TQ for your interest in my nick. Refer to my earlier post to “Wali”. No, I am not in the Viking Forum.

    Back to Silat, I respect your view, faith and knowledge. All the best to you!

    As for me, I am practicing Silat, claimed, as “The Heritage of Malay Culture” based on Islamic faith – “Tauhid which lead to action” - guided by Al-Quran, Hadiths and Sunnah - inner and outer “self” defense.

    It implies that Islam lifts not only the soul to the spiritual height, but also illuminates the body of man with the light of God-consciousness.

    It aims at purifying both body and soul, for it finds no cleavage (division) between them.

    Islam does not regard body and soul as two different entities opposed to each other, or body as the prison of the soul from which It yearns to secure freedom in order to soar to heavenly heights."

    The soul is an organ of the body which exploits it for physiological purposes, or body is an instrument of the soul", and thus both need spiritual enlightenment.

    Nice to know you! Hope we could have a healthy discussion in the future.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2006
  8. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Hello Indra

    Referring to your earlier posts I do not think your Ignorant and nor am I upset by anything you have said :)

    You asked me earlier what was the difference between spirit and soul. Spirit is the highest component of man and it can not be changed directly by mans actions, however the soul can.

    The Spirit communicates to the body via an intermediary component called the Soul.
    The spirit vibrates at too high a frequency to be directly received by the body so it must be translated via the Soul. The purer the soul is the better that translation will be.
    The soul is not a physical thing and neither is it an organ in the body.
    The soul envelopes the complete human body but has its centre or focus in the human hart.
    This is why I asked the question “what does it mean to have a pure heart”; the answer to that is simply a pure heart is a pure soul. To progress spiritually humans must work on the heart (soul) so that they may receive spirit through its purification. You can not change, manipulate or work on the spirit directly. The most we can wish for is that light in our hearts.

    All this however has nothing to do with Silat directly, Silat being just a martial art like every other martial art.
  9. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I have to say I don’t believe that Silat owes its history to Islam. Silat is much older then Islam.

    The body is one thing, yet it is many things, it is composed of one energy yet that energy has many manifestations. So how can it be one and yet many at the same time?

    The best way I can describe this to you is to look at the photo of the spectrum of light.
    When white light is split it shows us that it is composed of many colours. We can see the colours and count them but if asked to show where one colour finishes and another begins we find that we are unable to find that point of finishing or beginning, It is one yet it is many.

    The human body is much like that we can say it is composed of many things Spirit, soul, body but if asked to show where one finishes and the other begins we find it an impossible task. So the human body is one thing composed of one energy yet that energy has many layers and manifestations.

    Attached Files:

  10. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Hi Narrue and Others,

    TQ for your immediate response and I appreciate it very much. I made some unintentional mistakes in terminologies and apologize. Following are the corrections:

    • All word “SOUL” should be read as SELF/HEART
    • The SELF / HEART that controls all the bodily functions of the organism of the body which exploits it for physiological purposes, or body is an instrument of the SELF / HEART, and thus both need spiritual enlightenment.

    SELF:… the knowing, perceiving, abiding spirituality entity in a man. It is called HEART / SELF because it is connected with the PHYSICAL HEART, though the connection is metaphysical, it controls all the bodily functions.

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  11. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Colors and The Light

    Hi Narrue and Others,

    I have no intention in bringing this subject, but, since it has been highlighted by you, I thought, I would share this part of the knowledge.

    I am not exactly sure whether my explanations hereunder have a direct correlation with your line of thought.


    • Allah SWT created the Tablets from white pearl, and every day they change into 360 different colors.

    • The PEN wrote ‘ba’ (the first letter of the Basmala) of ‘Bismillah’ and light spread out from this letter, from the Throne to the farthest corner of the universe. All was lit up by this light. When asked by the Pen Allah SWT answered: “THIS IS THE LIGHT WHICH I WISH TO GIVE TO THE NATION OF MUHAMMAD WHICH WILL READ THESE LETTERS, I BESTOW IT UPON THEM FROM MY ENDLESS BOUNTY”

    • The letter “Sin” has three peak (teeth) and from each one of these a different kind of light issued forth: from the first peak a light which reached up to the Throne, from the second one a light which reached the Divine Court, and from the third the third a light which reached up to paradise (Jannah).

    What it means:





    • The letter Mim the light of this letter effused illuminated the whole WORLD. This is the light of Muhammad Mustafa SAW.

    o Mim is the first letter of the name of Muhammad SAW, My beloved, the Prince of Messengers and the crown of all Creation. I have created the world for his sake alone.

    For details:
    “LORE OF LIGHT”, by: Hajjah Amina Hatun and Translated by: Radhia Shukrullah

    Additional Note:

    • It took 22years, 2months and 22days (22-2-22) to complete the decent of Al-Quran by Arch Angel Gabriel to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

    • Careful when you “Dated ISLAM”. Your thought / understanding related to it is not correct or not in line with Islamic teaching.

    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  12. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    What I meant by that is Silat was practiced a long time in Indonesia before Islam was introduced and therefore Silat does not owe its history to the coming of Islamic teachings to Indonesia.
    I would say that Silat has more Indian influence if anything. Also same with the keris, it is not an Islamic weapon as I hear some people claim.

    You seam to be trying to link everything in the Quran to silat, the Quran is not a silat manual.
    I am glad that in the west silat is not painted with heavy religious overtones because it would make it a very unpopular martial art with the vast majority of people, including me.
    It seams to me that this application of a heavy Islamic paint to an art which is not of Islamic root results in something with a false flavour and not true to its roots.
    I think we should accept silat for what it is and its true roots and not try to change it into something it is not or was not. As an observer it is very apparent to me that those of Islamic faith are trying to claim silat as an Islamic martial art and invention….why?

    I used light simply to demonstrate the difficulty with separating the different aspects of the human body.
  13. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Please be Free To Practice Anything!

    Hi Narrue and Others,

    • I am not here to register claim nor argue with anybody about its history.

    • I am happy though, in Malaysia, Silat is nationally pronounced as “The Heritage of Malay Cultures (Khazanah Warisan Bangsa Melayu)”. Likewise in Indonesia and even in most of old historical literatures. Thus, the root of Silat is not from Indonesia / or by the Indonesian, but, The Malays instead.

    • All The Malays are Muslim and that is how Silat is associated with din Islam. Anything that related to din Islam must be in conformity with the Divine Guidelines / Regulations (“Divine Manual”), that is, Al-Quran, Hadiths and Sunnah. Failing which, it could not be associated or practiced either ways, outward nor inwardly. Of course, I don’t deny the fact that some muslims do deviate.

    At this juncture, may I share with or offer you and Others, hadiths from our Prophet (PBUH) to substantiate the above line of thought:

    • The sayings and actions of the Prophet (PBUH), which include what is known as the Sunnah, or his practice, are both as a matter of faith and, as a matter of fact, source of Muslim law, and are so by Divine Command and by the very nature of things. Qur’an is intended to be easily read, understood and encompassed detail application of the law is not its subject, and it is part of God’s providence that this should be demonstrated by His Prophet.

    o “You have indeed in the Messenger of God a good example for him who looks forward to God and the Last Day and remembers God Much” (33,xxi)

    o “Obey God and obey the Prophet” (5,xcii)

    Refer: “Inner Aspects of Faith, By: Shahidullah Faridi”

    • Az-Zukhruf (The Gold Adornments) 43: 36-37

    o “And whosoever turns away blindly from the remembrance of the Most Gracious (Allah) (i.e this Qur’an and worship Allah), We appoint for him Shaytan (Satan-devil) to be Qarin (a companion) to him” (36)

    o “And verily, they (Satans / devils) hinder them from the path (of Allah), but they think that they are guided aright!” (37)

    • An-Nisa’ (The Women) 4:59

    o O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger (Muhammad SAW) and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer to Allah and His Messenger (PBUH),if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination

    Methodology adopted:

    Hadiths / Sunnah

    Conclusion: I would like reiterate to you and others at large that I respect your line of thought and not interested either in claiming anything nor realigned any historical records, particularly with regards to silat. Please be free to practice anything that you believe in. To those Brother Muslims who are practicing Silat or claimed Muslim Silat or Silat Melayu which promises of all kinds of “powers”, do track the knowledge and practices accordingly (Methodology). I am here due to “Fardu Kifayah” !

    Last edited: Feb 9, 2006
  14. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    Silat : Knowledge Prior to Practice

    Hi All,

    God does not take away the knowledge of “true silat practices”, by taking it away from the hearts of the learned guru-guru silat, but He takes it away by the death of the learned guru-guru silat. When none of the learned guru-guru silat remains, silat practices will go astray! The sign is clear………

    Knowledge always come first prior to practice. Nothing exist without knowledge!

    What do you think?
  15. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    I think in Martial arts there are two types of people

    1. Practice to gain knowledge.

    2. Knowledge so you can practice.

    Let’s compare it to building a house. The first group of people will begin to build the house with very little knowledge of what it will look like when finished, how big it will be or how many rooms there will be. They just start building and if it falls down they learn from that mistake and start building again i.e. practice to gain knowledge.

    The second type of person is not happy to commit to start building a house until they have full knowledge of the building process. They must know sizes, dimensions, materials, detailed drawings etc. Only after they have a good idea of what they are trying to do will they get to work on the physical construction of the house i.e. knowledge so you can practice.
  16. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member

    What is Seni in Silat?

    High Narrue and Other,

    Let me try to interpret / understand your line of thought. The earlier is perhaps could be termed as LEARNED THROUGH MISTAKES and, the later, THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF EDUCATION. Both are costly and risky in their own rights.

    Finally: Success or failure, Good or Bad, Satanic or Angelic, Positive or negative, day or night, male or female etc. are subjected to one creativity in the knowledge taught. It is finally being graded by the manifestation of one hands and the 13 joints..

    This is what SENI in SILAT is all about. In the case of True Silat (HMC), The SENI is guided by the Divine Manual. Seni also means Beauty ect. Its manifestation is the Dressing, Tari, Music etc.

    Thus, Knowledge (Theory and Practical) manifest SENI & Actions


    “INNER REALITY IS ON EQUAL FOOTING WITH THEIR OUTER MANIFESTATION” …….. (What is the hidden in this Phrase? What is the “instrument of balancing? Al-Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, Ijmak & Al-Qiyas?)

    A True Guru Silat is one who could guide to realize the Statement above.

    Last edited: Feb 11, 2006
  17. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he"

    As you think, so will you become. We are all products of our thoughts. If a man believes he is weak he will become weak, if a man believes he is ill he will become ill. If a man believes he is an animal he will behave like an animal etc etc.

    There is a story of a young man; everyone who met him thought he was extremely handsome. All the women in the village wished he was theirs. He started to lead a wrong life doing many bad and evil things. He left his village and after a few years returned home. When he returned home no one could believe it was the same man, he was no longer handsome but quite ugly.
    It was his inner reality which had finally expressed itself in the outer manifestation.

    As for books, there are three , Divine, Natural and Physical.

    Divine, no thing ,one

    Natural, the nine chapters.

    Physical, a stone, four things one.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2006
  18. IndraMuda

    IndraMuda Valued Member


    Hi Narrue and Others,

    TQ for your continous response and your spirit in discussing views……..

    Quote: Narrue

    • Silat is just a Martial art like every other Martial art. A kick is a kick and a punch is a punch there is nothing spiritual about that

    • It was his inner reality which had finally expressed itself in the outer manifestation.

    My question to share with you and others!

    So, is a kick is just a kick and a punch is merely a punch and there is nothing spiritual about it? IF THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE, WHAT IS “INNER REALITY”? EXPRESSED ITSELF IN THE OUTER MANIFESTION?
  19. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Is kicking a football any different then kicking a person? Are you saying there is something spiritual in the act of kicking or for that matter punching? Obviously the mind (inner) controls the body (outer) so there is a manifestation of thought as action but no more then there is when kicking a football.
    If your talking about internal skill then lets remember that it was the alchemists which were most skilled in this and the vast majority of them were not martial artists as there has been alchemists in every country at all times in history past and at present. It is obvious therefore that such skills are not dependant on martial skill and in the beginning they were quite separate subjects.
    The bottom line is that to have internal or spiritual knowledge you don’t have to practice or even know martial arts. Think of all the great spiritual teachers of the past and you will see that most of them were not martial artists.
  20. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat


    Excellent point. In fact I know of many mind arts out there and most of them are surprised to find that some "Martial Arts" has the info.

    Here are some things many may never have heard of that has nothing to do with physical fighting (martial arts):

    1. Shamanism
    2. Tantra
    3. Sufism
    4. Taoism
    5. Hermeticism Alchemy
    6. Rosicrucianism
    7. Sorcery
    8. Witchcraft
    9. Chi Vampires
    10. Shape Shifting

    And there are others of course but this is a good enough list. All of the above practice mind fighting arts and all are capable of causing you serious harm.

    Teacher: Eddie Ivester

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