The meaning of kali

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by buddafinger, Oct 22, 2006.

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  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Keeping up with this thought pattern is correct, BUT...not that it is what others want to say. :bang:

    For example:
    Discussing it with my Instructor and his take on it, from his view is in line with the idea of body motion. "OR" the thought that all FMA is similar and that means the same movements or noteable strikes or parries or defensive tech...

    This holds with many who want to say a strike is a block is a defense etc.

    But to truly want to know why the term might have been there in the first place, "as in long ago and because the Indian influence was there" IMHO...

    Kali is the name of one of the most popular (long ago and for some reason now) Goddess's of India.

    I have been in India "Cochin". Back in the 60's...Not a pretty sight I have to tell you. But it was educational. And we are trying to be historically correct and not politically correct.

    Destruction and creation is now the way they want to depict her. The people of India are dark in color, so why would they "not" want their favorite goddess to be dark or "Black". To be dark is the mainstream of humanity, the white race is a minority. That is life. I would say at one time the thought was the white race was the majority (if you were not learned)...

    But in the total population of the world if we are going to classify those by color, the term should be "color" in my humble opinion.

    It is to bad that we have to have so much problems in the world because of the fact that one tribe cannot get along with another...But that was the way of the Islands long before the Spanish and Portuguese arrived. :eek:

    And to deny that is not condusive to reality, you have to step outside the box that the politicians want to keep you in... IMHO...

    Regards :)
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  2. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    Hi BGille,If we believed what we believed no one would stop you also Tara in Tagalog languge also called Tala means star .The problen we are not born at that time so what we believed is much important we always go fort and FMA EVOLVES A LOT ,MABUHAY KAPATID
  3. Limbas

    Limbas Valued Member

    I thought tara means "come".
  4. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    Yes Bro. You are right but I mean to say TARA also means a star and Tala in tagalog but tala in Bisaya means crazy or out of her mind.If India they have Kalari Payat ,we we have also Kalaro Tabak and if they have Gatka ,we also have KAgat.Well KAGATAN also means a Fight : :
  5. Limbas

    Limbas Valued Member

    I thought kalaro means "clear".
  6. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    Kalaro means the one you play and Klaro means clear.Pangdigma ,Pangayaw o pang-away.Pangalima or Pangamot.
  7. Limbas

    Limbas Valued Member

    I thought pangayaw means "jaws not" and pangalima means "five jaws"?!?!?
  8. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    This is Kalinaw means to clear ,Pangayaw means TRIBAL WAR and Pangalima means handling of weapons.
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    This is just the tip of the ice berg as far as why there is some confusion in the words and the arts. Many different languages and very close in words but meaning something else. It is to be expected with all the islands and just in the last 1/2 century trying to get things organized.

    Pretty tough job to unify. Heck they have trouble with just a handful of people. :D Most organizations have the same problems, just like neighborhoods. :woo:

    But it is good to stay as unified as possible, for together you are much stronger if you can stay focused and promote your Arnis, Eskrima and Kali.
  10. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    We will be glad if we know all the cause of everything.Kalinga also means brave warriors and also that what-ever style we unite.
  11. Limbas

    Limbas Valued Member

  12. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    Maybe? You are talking about kalitaw wth linga (poppy seeds) or binagkal with lunga. Kalinga ( KA-LING-GA) NOT kALI-NGA,BETTER TO GO TO kALIBANGAN.
  13. Damien Alexander

    Damien Alexander New Member


    Has anyone figured the meaning of KALI yet?!?!?!?
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Hi, we have bantered it about quite a bit (some are serious, while others have joked) and are still working on it, I believe.

    I think the ones who coined it, is where you have to go for why they did and who did it.

    Many have mentioned "Mother art" in books I have read about the fighting arts of the Philippines. And usually it is a term used I have noticed in reference to the name of "Kali".

    So I am thinking it is and was believed to be that by those authors. I have been looking through the reference books that I have personally. Around 15 of them.
    The authors Mark Wiley and Rey Galang, are more abundant, The rest are by others.

    The Meaning of it as a word and an art are not going to ever be agreed on IMHO, but the two things I have seen mentioned the most is the "sword and a smaller scaled one", (one being called Kalis and the other Kali) then you have the Goddess.

    The book that mentions the above is "Classic Arnis" written by Rey Galang and it can be found on Page 34. It is a footnote,

    So what is the meaning that you want to mention?

    Regards, Gary
  15. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Good information Kalislash,

    I have read the book's that are mentioned. Much of the stuff that is coming out now about China and Mongols. Seafaring that China did is pretty impressive as to how the world became a smaller place because of it.

    Not that long ago for seafaring it had limitations until then (1421) it seems, but the land movement was a given I am thinking. 10 years from now the information will be old and so much more will be out there. It is a good time for learning new information and the net is a great place for it.

    Sea faring around the coasts have been around forever I would think, many went out, and never returned they may have populated areas long ago and had no way of telling us because of time and the material that it was written on is gone, or lost to some collector (but even that kind is showing up once in a while from estates that feel it is better for public info than to hoarding it like a miser).

    This seemed informative so I thought I'd post it.


    China's Role in the Manila Galleon Trade
    by Teddy Dewalt

    China played the leading role among the East Asian nations in the famous Manila Galleon trade, Spain?s far-reaching commercial venture that began in the late sixteenth century, uniting Asia, the Americas and Europe in a globe-encircling trade for 250 years. During those years, Spanish Manila Galleons carried Chinese porcelain, its most precious commodity after silk, to Spain?s colonial empire and eventually to Europe. The trade constituted a tremendous enterprise, requiring the coordination of many people, many countries and many uncontrollable factors, the most significant, perhaps, being the weather. Danger from typhoons and hurricanes was a constant menace in the waters of the Pacific and the tropical waters around and beyond Mexico. Pirates, as the Spanish called the Dutch, English and Portuguese privateers, also constituted a considerable threat, especially in the eighteenth century. One should remember, however, that Spanish galleons were developed as warships, went heavily armed, and in spite of their seeming clumsiness, maneuvered well.

    The Manila Galleon trade was set up after the Atorna viaje, the return route for sailing ships from the Philippines to the harbor at Acapulco, was finally found. Its discovery has been credited to the expedition of L?pez de Legazpi in 1565 after five previous attempts by various other expeditions had failed. Ships from Mexico could reach the Philippines fairly easily by sailing south from Acapulco ten degrees to catch the Westerlies, a band of fairly steady, west-moving winds that propelled the ships across the Pacific in two or three months. But once in the Philippines, they couldn?t get back. The difficulty was wind.

    What the sailing ships needed was the Easterlies, a band of east-moving winds that lay far to the north of the Philippines off the north coast of Japan. A number of explorations failed to find them. However, Legazpi?s pilot, an elderly Augustinian named Andr?s de Urdaneta, had been commanded by the king to leave his quiet monastery in Mexico and guide the expedition because of his long years of experience in the Pacific. He directed Legazpi north beyond Japan to latitudes 38 and 39 degrees. There, filling their sails with the Easterlies, they returned to home port safely in Acapulco, aided also by the Japan current in the northern Pacific.

    Over thirty ships were lost during the 250 years of the Manila Galleon trade due to one cause or another. Both east and west-bound voyages were risky, but the east-bound voyage was the longest and more dangerous. Because they left Manila so heavily loaded, the galleons struggled to survive the rough weather and treacherous waters of the Philippine archipelago; but once free of the islands, sailing was easier. In addition to food shortages, created by filling every available inch with merchandise instead of provisions, disease and weakness usually killed a percentage of the passengers or crew. Space was very limited and living conditions cramped and miserable during the four to six months voyage from Manila to Acapulco. Horror stories were plentiful, and yet, people clamored for passage. One to three or four galleons a year sailed from Manila in the beginning of the trade, but later, usually one, sometimes two, made the annual voyage. The first Manila Galleon sailed from the Philippines in 1573 and the last in 1815, a royal decree bringing the Manila Galleon trade to a close.

    Once the return route was discovered, the most hazardous, harrowing voyage in the history of sailing was established, carrying the luxury goods of Asia from Manila to Mexico. In Acapulco, the merchandise destined for Spain was mounted on mules and carried overland to Mexico?s east coast port, Veracruz. There, together with silver from the northern Mexican mines, it was loaded on the ships of the flota (as this fleet for the eastern portion of the voyage was called) and sent to Havana where the Veracruz ships waited for the silver ships from South America. From Havana the heavily guarded ships (galleons were primarily warships), sailed for Spain.

    From the beginning, the Manila Galleon trade was dominated by the Chinese. In the early 1570s the Spanish had rescued a sinking Chinese junk from the waters of Mindoro and had treated the crew with humanity. The word spread throughout the trading community of China and by 1576 trade agreements had been reached by which Chinese junks would come to Manila from Canton and Amoy during the season of favorable winds with merchandise garnered from all over East Asia. Most years 50-60 junks sailed the 650-700 miles to Manila, taking from 15 to 20 days. Chinese resident merchants were established in an area of the city called the Pari?n where their warehouses were located, and here the buying and bargaining took place. Space for cargo on a galleon was (ideally) sold to registered Philippine citizens (it required eight years residence to qualify), allowing them to obtain boletas or shipping licenses to consign goods on the galleon. Their rights to the space could also be sold. Every inch of space was accounted for and recorded, but in actual practice, in spite of royal decrees and numerous rules and regulations, there was much smuggling and juggling of cargo.

    Upon reaching Acapulco, the galleons? cargo was carefully inventoried by royal accountants and a feria was held to which merchants flocked to buy and barter for the rich goods. Silk, porcelain, lacquerware, manufactured goods, fine furniture, iron tools and implements, gems, pearls, textiles of all descriptions, sandalwood, trinkets, and many other items over the years raised the colonials? standard of living to considerable heights of opulence which were maintained throughout the colonial period. In addition to the local market, an allotted portion of the goods was sent overland to Veracruz for the European market.

    The Spanish would have been very desirous of obtaining Chinese porcelain; it was almost unknown in Europe in the sixteenth century, except for the few pieces that would have reached there via the overland silk roads. Europe had no tableware that could match Chinese porcelain for delicacy and beauty. Its best tableware was a maiolica, an earthenware fired with a lead/tin glaze. Similar ware was made in Mexico, but porcelain was rare in Europe until the Manila Galleon trade.

    The precious merchandise, the luxury goods of the East managed by the Chinese residents of Manila, was paid for in silver, usually in silver coins, brought to the Philippines on the silver ships from Mexico. Although Spain deplored the loss of so much silver, never to be seen again once it had disappeared into Chinese coffers, the silver drain continued until the end of the Manila Galleon trade. Mexico is credited with having introduced into world commerce the first international currency, as the numismatists call the eighteenth-century Mexican peso, and the silver coinage from Spanish America circulated throughout the East and into Europe well into the twentieth century. Chinese merchants in the later years of the trade often stamped the peso with markers to indicate their validation of its silver content.

    Although most of the literature in English regarding the Manila Galleon trade refers to the ships as Manila Galleons, the ships were known by other names in countries, which were associated with them. Many of the ships were built in Cavite on the fine harbor in Manila Bay, where the work force, composed of Chinese and Malay workmen, labored on construction and repairs. The hardwoods of the islands provided excellent materials, and the cotton cloth of the province of Ilocos proved to make the best sails. However, some of the galleons were made in different parts of the islands and some in Mexico, where it was discovered that several of the trees in Central America could provide lumber that was impervious to the shipworm that infested tropical waters. The cost of the galleons was borne by the Spanish royal treasury. With several exceptions, attempts at persuading the king to allow private ownership of the galleons came to nothing.

    There are very few documents extant from the sixteenth century that give details of construction of the galleons or suggest anything more than an overall design of the ships. They were built with a high forecastle and poop and looked awkward, but their apparent top-heaviness was offset by an unusual breadth of beam. The half-moon appearance was deceptively clumsy. The Spanish, who developed the ship in response to a need for a well-armed vessel that could carry merchandise and still defend itself in American waters, kept plans well-concealed. It was not until the English had captured a galleon that its structural secrets became available. The British altered the galleon structure into what is called the racing galleon. Credited to Hawkins and Drake, it was longer, lower and slimmer, and it could out-maneuver the older-type Spanish galleon, if it could find one.

    In view of the fact that the Manila Galleon trade was so long-lasting and colorful in its history and associated intrigues, it is odd that so few articles or books has been written about it in English popular literature. The standard reference, written by William L. Schurz in 1949, is out-of-print and hard to find. An edition published by the Historical Conservation Society of Manila in 1985 may be obtained by writing the exclusive distributor: Casalinda Bookshop, Second floor, San Antonio Plaza, Fisher Park, Makati, Metro Manila.

    Regards, Gary
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2007
  17. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

    Hi BGille, Very nice work about your post keep it up my friend also I need some information :love: MABUHAY
  18. kalislash

    kalislash Valued Member

  19. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Good stuff. I'll be busy there for awhile.

    I was in Rome in 1960 saw the Boxing at the Olympics, Young man by the name of Cassius M. Clay Jr. was there. I enjoyed the visit, compliments of Uncle Sam.

    I'll bet it has changed quite a bit, it was busy then, I can't even think how many more Vespa's are running around. Speeding around the (round intersections) streets, all the pigons and statues and the breadsticks and muscles and red wine, was a real thrill, quite an experience for someone 18. LOL. :D

    When in Naples, I hired a person who showed me around town worked for Lucky Luciano, honest...

    Carried a switch blade and a small Beretta on him I ended up buying his switch blade off him on the last day. I wanted the pistol but I could have gone to the "Brig" on that deal, so the Blade was ok. Gave it to my Brother. He still has it. :)

  20. dyak_stone

    dyak_stone Valued Member

    Can I quote you on this, kalislash?
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