"The last Samurai" (2003) - an observation.

I loved it

even if there are subtle historical problems with it, I still thought it was am amazing movie. I loved that scene. it kind of reminds me of the ninja scenes from Shogun.

 

Agent you said Ninjtusu does not have ground fighting or grapling techniques, which has confused me.

I am not an exspert in Ninjutsu as I have not been in training for that long, but I have seen my teacher using and teaching, grapling and ground fighting techniques.

Im not sure if its right to say Ninjutusu doesnt have them techniques since Ninjutsu teaches you to addapt to the situation as it occurs, and if sombody got you on to the floor grappling, I dont think Ninjutsu would suddenly become usless.

It is a Bujinkan school by the way and part of the BBD which operates throughout the UK.

 

for me the scene with the "ninjas" were awesome. especially with the two ninja trying to stock watanabe while making a hissing sound.

 

historically the shinobisai used any and all weapos they could get thier hands on. this include crossbows from china (as late as the tokugawa shogunate before the meiji restoration).

 

the shinobi would do whatever was necessary to do the job, including (as the old text from the monestary said) "being wolves attacking a horse"

the very nature of shuiriekins were to be distance weapons. i'm sure that the legendary ability of the assassins to make poisons came into play here. they've found the use of neurotoxic material in japan since the old china trades (before the shoguns era).


well hell, it was a great movie!

 

From what I've been taught shurikens are distance but not like kill people from 50 yards distance. I've been taught they were mainly used from a close distance but not close enough for kicks and that they can be used to kill like you've said or simple to distract them then BAM you have them some other way

 

Wow... More information about Ninjutsu that we definitely do not need here on these boards. Okay, first of all, the idea of Ninja as information gatherers comes from the period in Japanese history when Ninja were used by the government for purposes of reconnaissance and such. Ninja originally were, however, farmers and peasants from Japan's more mountainous regions. They were persecuted by the samurai and developed the techniques of Ninjutsu in order to survive. This is why Ninjutsu contains all aspects of combat (even groundfighting). To say that the Ninja's "art" was stealth and guerilla warfare tactics is completely wrong. Ninja had a specific combat system. It was not kung fu or just any style of fighting they chose to learn. There were specific ryu and variations thereof. Unfortunately, Shootodog, the information you have is false. Ninja were not about missions and they most definitely had an art. As far as killing themselves when trapped, I would only imagine this happening if the Ninja expected to be tortured if captured. Survival, however, was the main goal of the Ninja. That is what the art is based on, surviving by any means necessary.

 

Just wondering, but what, exactly, are these monastary texts that you keep referencing? I have seen no such texts in all my years of researching this art and its history. The closest thing to a monastary, or things relating to such, was the fact that Ninjutsu could have some roots in China thanks to monks that traveled to Japan centuries ago. This, however, is just one of several theories, and obviously associating monks and a monastary is stretching things a bit. Which monastary are you referring to and why would any monastary have records of anything pertaining to the Ninja?

 

That they way I have been trained.

All the shuriken-jutsu Kata I know (expect Ku no Kata) involves throwing a bo-shruken as a distraction and then slicing/stbbing with a sword (usally and Diato).

Think of it this way...

We are in a fight and we both have a sword. I conceal a bo/hira shuriken in my hand. Before you make a move i throw the shirken towards you head, no matter if I hit. Your reaction will be to block or duck from the shuriken. In that split second that you move to block/duck I strike with my sword. That is the use of a shuriken.

 

Kunoichi (female ninja) were experts with the bow and arrow.

 

"If they were so worried about accuracy, then why did they feel they had to insert a white American into the fabled last stand of the Samurai?. "

this is a weak statement that a large portion of movie goers have said since the movie came out. it is weak because if you studied in a western civ course and/or japanese history you would know the story of the emporer and how they wanted to westernize.

they took in engineers, ect and learned how to replicate western values and melt them into their own. hence the modernized building structures, military uniforms, new weapons, new ways of industry (from industrialization), new methods of schooling ect. the imperial empire that was created in the 19th century wanted to be the supreme power of the world. they wanted to beat the western or asians by being the best at it.

so, how could they westernize with no contact with white culture? how would they learn western military? yes they did send japanese everywhere to train and be educated, but they needed people there too!

 

im pretty sure you guys are reading to much into this, the director (ed zdwick) probally thought, 'hey i know what if we have ninjas vs samurai fight' 'yeh that would be well cool' plus it get on the band wagon of zatochi which was recently released over seas.. They just thought that cinematically it would look good, they didnt care to much if using a ninja starr thing was inaccurate because it looks damn coo, plus no-one int the cinema will know that ninjitsu is even still practiced let alone people who know how accurate or inaccurate a scene is. Great film by the way....

 

Unfortunately for me, I've lost the link where I got most of my information on the inaccuracies of "The Last Samurai", but I'm sure if you can work google, you can find it again. First up, I want to say that I loved the movie, and it is the reason I started Bujinkan. No, it wasn't the "Ninjas". It was the whole idea of honor and discipline that the movie focused on. I'm surprised no-one has brought up one of the best parts of the story, the fact that while living in the mountains as exiles (Like the real Ninja did), the Last Samurai had to defend themselves from "Ninja" attacking them to assassinate their leader and destroy their clan (Like the real Samurai did).

I also think it's funny that noone has brought up the fact that in the real Satsuma rebellion, the samurai used firearms like everone else. Since 1575, the Samurai had been using firearms with no qualms, and the whole "No guns" thing was just invented to make Katsumoto look more honorable.

As far as Ninja using crossbows and shuriken (Offensively) it shouldn't even be an issue. Ninjutsu is the art of survival, using whatever you need to with your taijutsu to survive. Ninja probably would have used crossbows, bows, guns, yari or naginata. Whatever they needed to. This is all moot though, because the people in the movie aren't necessarily Ninja. Sure, they could be Ninja warriors working as assassins, but black pyjamas and a hood don't make you a Ninja. Remember, the Samurai also trained in Shuriken-jutsu, and they were used however you wanted to use them.

Last point - Thanks to the japanese being such avid record-keepers, we know that there were no American military advisors active in Japan during the Satsuma rebellion. The early Japanese military was in fact modelled heavily after the Prussian and Germanic models, and experts from these areas were brought in, not Americans.

Moral of the story - Let's not try to learn any practical lessons from the movie. It's very very roughly based on an actual event, and the only real lessons to be gleaned are philosophical. So, enjoy the pretty armour and battle scenes, have fun, but don't take it too seriously.

 

i agree, great movie and yugo or jugo i cant remember was ROCK hard. and deserved an oscar for the rain fight scene....

 

That movie should have gotten lots of oscars, but was blown into obscurity by other movies

 

I think you're talking about Ujio, played by Hiroyuki Sanada. I agree. He did an excellent job, very dark and angry. Hell, I wouldn't be very happy if my whole way of life was being outlawed.

 

They slowed down a lot of the action for the movie. The sword slashes would've be a lot faster. This is what I've been told.

 

Isn't Prussian the same as German? Sorry I might be wrong.

 

That was more likely added to get the paticular audience who when the mere utter of martial arts or ninjas etc they immediatly start dancing around the room or immitating shruiken throwing.

Weren't shruikens used by spy geishes? apparently they hid shrukiens in their hair and well you know, have an intresting game of pin the shruiken on the persons head....

 

Prussians and shurikens

Well, that's a complicated subject. Technically, Prussian and Germanic could be the same thing, but at the time The Last Samurai "occurred", they weren't the same thing. Europe hasn't always been divided like it is right now. Previously, it was a little more regionally-divided, until the unification of Germany under Hindenburg and the establishment of the Reichstag (Parliament). I'm not certain on that, but to my understanding that's how it was.

Sure, I can imagine that spies, even geisha spies would use shurikens. Fact is, back then, everyone used shuriken. Samurai, Ninja, Spies. Pretty much anyone that learned a traditional martial art used them. Most of the time they were a pretty serious distraction, but with proper power and accuracy, they were a deadly offensive weapon too.