The karate kihon thread!

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Fish Of Doom, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I wasn't aware there had been any plagiarism so far?

    Personally I'd prefer people cut and pasted quotes from other websites (which is not plagiarism) than they posted links, though I would prefer to have the sources referenced if they do so.

    Time is a luxury and sadly while I am interested in reading the information likely to be on this thread, I don't have time to follow lots of links and then find the pertinent information on the pages.
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    john raises a valid point

    also, IMO it'd be way more interesting if the explanations were our own, which might deviate from the "standard" ones that you're likely to find in dojo websites and such.

    i'll post another one in the near future (ie in the next four hours or so)
  3. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Thanks Fish,

    In this case, my chosen topic is Junzuki.

    Similar in appearance to Shotokan's "Oizuki" - most students probably start practicing it from lesson one, however (for me anyway), it is one of those techniques that you take with you through your training and is continually improved upon / learnt from.

    I think that in addition to a way of punching, its practice should be viewed as a way to epitomize correct movement (and the benefits thereof).

    Here is a link to Mr van Dijk's (Wado-AJ) website where he explains (better than I ever could) about Junzuki.

  4. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired


    Too late,

  5. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    Its not plagiarism if you cite your source. If you post a link, please post some content of your own thoughts along with it so this thread doesn't become just a bunch of links....sound like a good idea?

    Kuma: not sure what you mean by kote uchi...are you speaking about kote as targeting of the wrist or a strike with the wrist?

    For example, GoJu and Uechi Ryuha have blocks and strikes with the wrists (think koi block/strike in Uechi and bunkai from Kata Tensho in GoJu).
  6. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

  7. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    No one has John - these were my words to describe what I was about to do.

  8. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    In my defence, I think the link was quite direct also.

  9. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    @ Gary, and all else;

    As an aside, some nomenclature I've heard for the basic idea of this strike (I realize some styles and schools do them a little different)

    Oizuki (sometimes refers to front leaning, or lunging punch but same idea)
    Suigetsu Zuki
    choku zuki
    gyaku zuki
  10. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    seiken tsuki refers to the punch, and to the punch only, independent of stance, side, and shape. it literally means thrusting with the seiken (true/correct fist, afaik)

    oizuki is the same as junzuki, if i'm not mistaken

    choku zuki, i think, is the "normal" straight punch (ie, the one that becomes kizami, gyaku or oi/jun depending on positioning)

    gyaku zuki is a choku zuki done with the rear hand

    never heard the terms munetsuki and suigetsu zuki. anyone got any info about those?
  11. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    I guess a Karate Kihon thread was always going to expose differences in terms of how styles describe techniques (as well as how to do them).

    Fwiw, as I understand it:

    Oizuki = Thrusting/pushing/lunging punch (although TBH I think there was a thread in this board before and it was pretty inconclusive as to the exact term as I recall).

    Seikenzuki = Seiken - ie "Sei" or "correct" means front of fist or hitting with the main (front) two knuckles.

    Munetsuki - not one I have heard before but I think "Mune" is the chest plate I think (can’t be sure)

    Suigetsu Zuki = Suigetsu - is the solar plexus as far as I know, but again never heard the term Suigetsu Zuki

    Chokuzuki = Straight / direct punch

    Gyakuzuki = reverse punch ie opposite arm to leg.

    I guess this come down to terminology.

    Some (both Japanese and English) describe the desired target area, some describe the desired action, and others describe the part of the body you are using to perform the desired action.

    There is often inconsistency between styles to describe the action of simple blocks like soto and uchi uke even

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    dear god, soto uke and uchi uke

    let's leave this as a record: soto means outside, uchi (and naka) mean inside. but they do not specify a direction of travel (ie, inwards or outwards). so in shotokan, soto uke (outside block) is out-to-in (from the outside), while uchi uke (inside block), is in-to-out (from the inside), whereas in ****o (and i think in goju too), uchi uke is out-to-in (to the inside), and the in-to-out block is yoko uke (ie, to the side).

    i'll leave the guys that know more about goju and wado to state what they call them in their styles :p
  13. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    From what I have seen, the Shoto "oizuki" is a thrusting punch that pushes off the back leg, with shoulders and hips square utilizing (in the most part) the foward push for its energy.

    Junzuki on the other hand, is a combination of forward inertia + hip and shoulder rotation + gravity.

    In wado junzuki anyway, there is not a feeling of pushing - more a feeling of falling (although we don't)

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  14. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    but in ****o we call it oi zuki yet use koshi too

    i've always believed the reason shotokan uses the oizuki with square hips because, by using the long stances, they basically ram you with their whole body, using the punch only as transfer point, whereas in ****o and wado you can't get that impact with high stances, so we use more koshi no kaiten than tai no shinshuku. any of the shoto peeps wanna pitch in?
  15. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Or..., it could pertain to the part of your arm you use to make contact with the opponent?

    i.e.: If we take chudan uchi uke - in the way you describe (coming from outside to in) you make contact with the "inside" of your forerarm.

    Whereas, if your arm travels from inside to out to block a punch (in same the classic way), it is the outside of the forearm that makes contact.


  16. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    but your forearm is rotated, so it'd actually be the outside, pointing in (particularly if you have the characteristic rounded shoulders of karateka who do a lot of tsuki training :D)

    whereas anatomically it would be the posterior side :evil: :D :evil:

    minefield indeed (also language is fun)
  17. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Sorry Fish - my old age setting in.

    When I was talking about blocking with the inside of the arm (uchi uke) - against a staight punch for example - I was talking about an arm position that had the "pinkie" of the blocking hand (again in classic Kihon) closest to the attacker's tsuki arm.

    Are we on the same page - or have a missed something?

  18. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    well, technically, at rest your pinky points to your sides away from you (particularly if you have rounded shoulders), so that side of the forearm is the outside.

    anyway, we're going off-topic :p

    will start writing another technique in a while
  19. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    Hey, I was just throwing down a bunch of nomenclature I've seen for pretty much the same strike...just for fun, see if anyone knew any others. As I said, there are minor differences but, for the most part, the same.

    Mune (胸) Tsuki (thrust) [​IMG]
    basically chest thrust....very generic for any attack to the chest area.

    Suigestsu zuki

    sui (水) water
    getsu is from getsuei which means "moon."

    Suigetsu zuki translates to "the path of the moon's reflection on the water" or something like that. Its a poetic term for a reverse punch....from what I understand it refers to the hand starting palm up and rotating palm down...thus creating a "mirror image" of its original the mirror image of a reflection in water. Yeah, I know....a little crazy.
  20. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    I dont think that is what it means in reality.

    Suigetsu may be a compound of the words for water and moon, but in many Japanese ma (jodo, kenjutsu etc) it refers to the solar plexus or at least attacking it.


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