The joker

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Dead_pool, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Yup. Kinda went Summer of Sam. However kinda referring to the fact that people who do these things are suffering from some kind of mental health issue, rather than "an being incel" - a term I don't quite like tbf
     
  2. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    John Hinckley Jr, who attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981. He became obsessed with the lead characters in the movie, especially Jodie Foster's.

    He is walking free today, by the way, released in 2016 after serving 35 years in prison. For a Martin Scorcese film, the body count on this one was pretty low. Nobody died thanks to the Secret Service, unless you count James Brady dying 33 years after being shot by Hinkley.

    Another example of life imitating art imitating life. Hinkley wasn't made an assassin because he watched Taxi Driver, he was an assassin in waiting triggered by Taxi Driver, but it might as well have First Blood or some other man against The Man movie.
     
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  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Indeed the correct terms would be banned on MAP.
     
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  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's a very good point.

    I'm still waiting for them to try and ban catcher in the rye!
     
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  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I just had a realization, the same questions came up after the 2012 Aurora, Colorado movie theater massacre. James Holmes basically pulled a "joker", dyed his hair and went tactical on an audience watching a midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises. Killed twelve including a six year old girl and wounded more than 80.

    Claimed insanity, got 12 life sentences, one for each fatality. Movie theaters hired armed guards after for a while fearing copycats, and gun sales in Colorado soared.

    My realization was shocking because if you know the Holmes case, especially the violent fantasizing...Phoenix's joker seems uncannily based on him, or at least the archetype that Holmes acted out. It's all there, the clown hair, the anger, the copycat clowns...spooky.
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Have you seen the film?
     
  7. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Not yet, I'm just going by the trailer.

    Also, been doing some light reading...

    Is the Joker Hypersane?
     
  8. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I did see IT Chapter 2, though. I definitely have the coulrophobia.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's not this joker, also it's an old article publising his old book, (Publication date: June 15, 2019) so its definitely not about this joker!
     
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  10. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    No it's about the whole concept of a Joker like character. He even talks about how the "evil" of the joker has changed over time, from basic serial killer to our current ideas of a criminal mastermind, based on how our society's perception of villain changed in the last 70 years.

    The part about it not being fair to "diagnose" Joker is kind of true. He is not insane in the traditional clinical sense. He's far too calculating and successful to suffer from psychosis, so he must be a type of savant psychopath, which has no clinical diagnosis either, and would likewise be impossible to tie down or analyze by any modern specialist, especially a social worker.

    That's the interesting part of the article. It basically suggests that the need for Batman comes from this idea that the modern world has no way of dealing with a Joker, and so you need a similar kind of creature like Nietzsche's "Ubermensch", aka Bruce Wayne.
     
  11. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    James Holmes, on the other hand, has what most clinical commentators have referred to as defineable conditions, psychosis, schizophrenia, etc.

    I have a feeling what the new Joker movie does is show the transition from mental illness to what the article calls hypersane, which is according to the author (a doctor) normally a good thing, a kind of freedom from fear...unless you suffer from mental disorder.

    Instead of freeing his mind for good, Joker goes from meek and ill to a sort of Chaos Ubermensch, unable to use his Jungian Shadow for good instead of evil. And that's where Batman comes in, using his shadow for good, and making to two such an awesome pair of nemeses.
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Never try to judge a film too much on its trailer. I used to edit some, and my background is in film. 3min out of 120mins gives a taste but not necessarily shows quality. Sure there are some films which from the trailer, you have an idea if its going to be crap or not...but many would surprise you. Whilst those with good trailers, end up being terrible.

    Staying on subject. Much of the footage used in The Dark Knight Rises trailer were not in the final edit of the film or it was the alternate angle of the scene. Infinity War had scenes filmed specifically for the trailer.

    In Downsizing, the trailer suggested 1 storyline but it was actually something else completely.

    Although the articles written by those who saw Joker in Venice in regards to the inciteful violence have seemed to gain traction. Despite other films like Fight Club having similar backgrounds hasn't caused it.
     
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  13. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Speaking of the Caped Crusader...Happy Batman Day! Didn't even know this was a thing, but the thought of the Bat Signal flying over New York, Melbourne, Tokyo, Johannesburg, Rome, London, Berlin, and others really shows how universally iconic the Dark Knight really is. Joker doesn't get his own day of international unity.

    To the Batmobile!

    Batman Day: Watch cities across the world flash the Bat Signal - CNN
     
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  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Yup. I wore a GCPD jacket to the signal in London.
     
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  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So I just searched for the joker on Reddit, and found a lot of incel forum posts about it.

    Why does everything I like get ruined by the internet, the matrix, the joker........ two women eating chocolate pudding together....

    Reddit is wierd, reddit'ers are wierder, and incel reddit'ers are just insanely wierd.

    They should get out more, widen their experiences, and get a girl/boyfriend............
     
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  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Honestly reddit freaks me out quite a lot. Even the friendlier parts are a bit creepy or unnerving.
     
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  17. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Still haven't seen the movie, too busy. Reviews are pretty solid, as expected. Phoenix is such a unique actor, I knew he would kill it, pun intended.

    I think it's interesting that we just completed a decade plus hero story arc with the Avengers, and now here comes this Joker character.

    A lot of debate going on right now like whether this Joker is a true villain, or anti-hero. Is he evil, or something else? Curious to find out myself after seeing the show. Might try for later today.
     
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Great film. I'd say that it doesn't rely on the Joker moniker at all. It's almost nothing to do with the DC comics or universe but in a really good way. It's much more of a social criticism than a comic book entry. Very VERY real. I can see why incels would love this. I do actually fear copycats because of the nature of the film.
     
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  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'll probably be watching in in six months on Netflix unfortunately.

    I watched this yesterday, and it seemed to resonate with me:

     
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  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Due to work and life, wont be watching it till later this week. So Im hoping theres some decent screening times left.

    As said, its been hit and miss with this movie based on some of my friends and FB geek groups.

    What I do find funny is that people love/hate it for the same reason.

    "Oh God its just like Taxi Driver! Amazing"

    "Oh God, is juts basically Taxi Driver! Rubbish"

    So Im waiting for a Joker mohawk now....
     
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