The (Hopefully) Once-And-For-All Steroid Discussion

So what's your point? That possession of steroids is not illegal? Ok I knew that but thanks.

Not really, it just makes your posts look like they were emailed in from a playground somewhere.

 

The point is your supply chain is illegal if you are not obtaining your steroids via legitimate means.

Anyway while you are being pedantic about legal semantics, I am still waiting for all those 'anabolic steroids are safe' legitimate medical studies that contradict the accepted medical facts.

I'm still waiting.

I see I have now become some kind of anti-steroid crusader in your eyes.

All I have been saying is that I think the misinformation that these amatuer steroid 'experts' with no medical training spout, is very dangerous. Furthermore, this partial denial regarding side effects that are very well documented is ridiculous.

They happen, period (as they would say in the USA). Accept it.

Of course people will abuse steroids, but let's give them properly researched medically legitimate information.

 

Oh and while I'm here, I'm sure promoting and denying the risks of recreational drugs would create an uproar.

Many of those are have much fewer side effects than some anabolics.

 

the point is its misuse rather than use that causes the side effects in the majority of cases.

 

For the nth time, nobody has, and nobody will ever say AAS are 100% safe. You keep pushing this point but nobody is disagreeing with you.

 

Isn't abusing steroids outside a legitimate medical/clinical framework, also misuse?

Oh and side effects are often dose dependant.

So higher dose=higher potential for side effects.

We've already estabilshed that they are taken at much higher levels than clinically recommended.

So, greater risk of side effects.

 

There is abuse and there is abuse

Technically using any drug could be classed as 'abuse' even smoking one joint a year or something. But it is not quite as black and white as that. Abuse to me is doing AAS at either unnecessary high dosages or for a long time or with no PCT etc. Most AAS users would agree with me here.

Well for example let's say you take a non-17-AA injectable steroid, you have SERMs and AIs to combat gyno, water retention and to restore hormone levels during PCT, let's say you are not genetically prone to male pattern baldness. Let's say you don't have temper problems and aren't a scumbag, so AAS won't exacerbate this. There we have shot down over half of your list of side effects already. Things like testicular atrophy are temporary and irrelevant.

But alas I have said this before and you didn't listen then so you probably won't now.

But really even if an AAS user gets gynecomastia from not knowing what they are doing, it's their decision and their choice/risk. Nothing to do with you.

 

Um a lot of 'lets say's' there mate!

Anyway, so one takes a SERM too?

For those not in the know a SERM is a selective oestrogen receptor modulator, generally used to stop osteoporosis in post menopausal women. However, the first generation SERM was Tamoxifen used to treat breast cancer.

And an Aromatase inhibitor? Maybe anastrazole or letrazole?

These basically block the aromatase enzyme and stops oestrogen production. Again a breast cancer treatment.

What do you take PCT?

I might actually cross reference all these drugs in combination for interactions & side effect.....just out of interest.

As for..

There is a lot of hard evidence to suggest a predisposition is not needed for AAS to produce this type of behaviour.

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that this 'matter of fact' attitude to shrinking testicles is a bit odd?

Is it all worth it? What are the actual gains? Why do you need these gains?

Lets face it you can't be a competitive sportsman & take these drugs because you would be disqualified in any mainstream sports environment that routinely tests.

The motivation needed to take such an intense & complex cocktail genuinely bewilders me

 

Not really, most AAS users I know are sensible and not prone to temper tantrums and violent behaviour. I have not heard one person tell me they suddenly acted violently because of taking AAS. If you are prone to this behaviour then obviously, extra testosterone will likely make it worse.

But we are talking about sensible users remember.

Yep thanks for that, I see you've discovered Google

Yes in estrogen-sensitive tumours. They also make the male body produce more testosterone when in a supressed state.

Look it up yourself, I don't understand what you're asking

Go on then, while you're at it do it for paracetamol and aspirin too.

And a lot of real-world evidence to suggest it is

I don't, since it is a harmless and temporary side effect

You don't 'need' anything mate, we all 'want' however. What people want to do is completely their business

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Now then. As I work in a cancer clinic I might know a little bit about Tamoxifen

Why? Its usually fine to take both together at the correct dosage of course

Genuine clinical studies not 'real-world' then?

As for PCT & yes I did google this one with regard to bodybuilding Post Cycle Therapy. So what does it involve? How would I know?

 

That's alright then, but you should know tamoxifen has been used by AAS users for many years. Even though it's used to treat certain cancers it also works in different ways in males.

Yes, but you could still pull up a list of a hundred possible recorded side effects for almost every drug on the market. This doesn't mean we should never touch any of them. It's all about benefit/risk ratio. Which is completely personal choice. Creatine for example provides an excellent ratio because it has a marked positive effect with little side effects, so many people take it. The strength and size gains possible from AAS are in a completely different league to any legal supplement or foodstuff but obviously (sod's law) they carry greater risks. Which is why, as I have said many times, you will not catch anyone on a good BBing/strength training forum advising anyone to take them.

Not really, there is no substitute to actually having first or second hand experience of something. I don't know any AAS user who has had a violent outburst on cycle, and I know a fair few. This doesn't mean it never happens, but that it is very unlikely.

When taking AAS the body no longer produces as much testosterone as it has an abundant supply, this is why the testicles can shrink. Without PCT it can take a long time to recover to normal test levels. With PCT the body is made to return to normal testosterone levels within a few weeks.

Not doing PCT is probably responsible for 99% of the cases of gynecomastia you see talked about in the bad press about AAS, as AI's and SERMs prevent this when used correctly.

 

If anyone needs to look at the authentic datasheets of any drugs...

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/DSForm.asp

All side effects, interactions etc. are listed. However, remember that these are only for the recommended clinical doses.

This is a Kiwi site, most of the UK ones are password protected and only available to health professionals.

 

A properly planned cycle will eliminate any chance of testicular atrophy, so you can cross that side effect of the list as well.

 

Using HCG on cycle?

 

Yup. Why let your boys shrink in the first place? HCG will keep them full and normal sized while on cycle, and make PCT alot easier.

 

Um, human chorionic gonadotrophin

Do you guys realise if you try a home pregnancy test it will show your pregnant?

That's the hormone produced in the placenta of a pregnant woman

So these cycles involve....

Anabolic steroids

SERMs (usualy used to treat eostrogen sensitive tumours)

Aromatase inhibitors (as above)

And HCG a hormone produced in pregnancy

Anything else to add to the cocktail?

 

It's a boy!

Although seeing as how the word "gonadotrophin" has "gonad" in it, I can see why that may work...or have some effect on the boys.

 

I think they're just 'little boys' then

 

Holy chorionic gonadotrophin, Batman!

Sounds like the end of your cycle could be the beginning of another cycle;
menstrual that is.

To tell you the truth it reminds me of the guys that would run amphetamines for so long then use alcohol and marijuana to help them sleep which would make them lethargic so they needed more amphetamines just to get them going the next day

Notice the developing complexity, each substance has it's own risks and precautions. I'll just stick to the tried and true basics; eat food, drink water, lift weights.

 

These 20 year old kids don't know what they are talking about. They just pump a bit, some probably throw in a few Winstrol tablets and after that they think they own the world.

Well let me tell you something:

ROIDS AIN'T FUN!

There is only one way out: quit or die.

Just read this:

http://www.anabolicsteroids.com/olympia.html


DC.