the FMAs and Gun Training

Again, we've already covered one-on-one knife fights.

But Glasgow being the capital of knife crime is new to me. I didn't know it's like Gaza there, maybe we should do a flotilla to send aid over there.

C'mon, lads. Why do we train everyday? Polar, your training must have been really mediocre for you to experience a knife attack and say, that it's a head of crap and then say 90% of it didn't work. Same goes for koyo.

This is what differentiates correct training from lousy training.

Trusting your instinct works, but only if that instinct has been fully developed and refined from correct training, training which is highly perishable--this is the reason we train everyday with the right mental attitude.

I can confidently say that had I known what little I know now, I'd have less scars to show.

We train for a reason, lads. I'd hate to visit a McDojo just to hear the folks that run that place say all this training is crap, best stay with instinct. That shows the level of confidence in their training, I suppose.

 

Maybe the lads just need you to pop over and show them how to do it properly.....ya know, seeing as you're the resident expert and all.

 

Knife capital

Gaza sees a lot of knife crime, yes? Not guns, or bombs/grenades etc? No, its always knives, int it?

A work mates son was slashed as he entered the Metro station in Newcastle city centre. Group of kids ran past, one of the last ones slashed him across the stomach. No warning, no arguments, just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Awareness is the most important attribute when dealing with an assailant, knife wielding or not.

Does Glasgow have a higher propensity for knife crime than other parts of the world? Don't know, but just because it a city in a "civilised" part of the world doesn't preclude it from have serious crime.

Bill

 

@ Ular and Laban,

I think the point was that we train for a reason.

It could be Glasgow, it could be South Detroit, East L.A., Queens NY, or Tondo Manila.

We train for a reason. Nobody should say that we train, but it actually is all just a waste of time. That's why you train correctly and with the right mental attitude. Don't cut yourself while doing a demo with a trainer knife, that's not training correctly. That's the point with the above post, the venue can be any where.

 

You've obviously never been to any of the camps in Gaza and also the camps in Jordan and Syria.

 

Where did I say depend ONLY on survival instinct.?

The survival instinct I spoke of is to get the hell off the line of attack NOT to remain where the knife can reach you,

Take the man out by pre-emptive action or get off the line of attack and strike along the line of attack as powerfully and effectively as possible and go THROUGH him.

Both bear and I train against knife and BOTH of us have actual experience outside the dojo.

 

Training

I gotta admit it's pretty easy to misunderstand these sentences:

and

You might want to explain yourself further when you make the above statement, just a thought.

Don't we all, laddies...

 

I made no comment about your training.

Attack at all times show a superior fighting spirit and destroy the opponent's spirit to continue. Is the main principle we study armed or unarmed.

I would be uncomfortable training in maai that is the distance where we could both be cut and I saw it a lot in the videos.

Despite being Scottish I am afraid I am not a laddie BUT I have worked in deprived areas in Glasgow for some twenty odd years and most likely have seen and experienced knife confrontations more than most.

 

"FREEEEEeeeeedom"

Man, you should've opened with this post. That's the mental attitude, I'm talking about!

As for the videos, you should post the videos you've mentioned and let's rip 'em apart. But I guess forum decorum prevents you from doing this--how else would you have gotten all those awards under your name. Although it would be a great service to the community if you did, and you know it.

As for Scotland, I saw 'Braveheart' more than a hundred times and I love it. I loved 'Stone of Destiny' too. I think you guys should break free of England. And the best James Bond will always be Sir Sean Connery.

 

Here's a statistic for you, the live expectancy in the rough areas of Glasgow is the same as Gaza. That's without Israelis shooting at them.

So it seems that, you have no experience, little training, no much life experience and yet you feel qualified because you watch some prison vids on you tube that you have all the answers on real knife fights.


The Bear.

 

The life expectancy in any rough area around the world (ie Southcentral L.A., southside Chicago, favelas around Rio, etc.) would probably be worst than Gaza. You might want to re-check your statistics on how many Gazans the Israelis actually kill, ever heard of Palestinian on Palestinian violence?

Experience--check. Little training--only in Pekiti Tirsia, but school of hardknocks, check, Life experience--I just rebutted your statement above, life experience check (remember Aegis had to delete my rebuttal of you since I tore you a new one), as for qualifications, I'm just keeping it real--exposing subpar training.

But I thought we were toning it down? Is Janno the only one on here that can speak technically?

 

Please share with us your depth of experience.

The Bear.

 

I don't train with firearms. I don't really have any intention of carrying one. I have trained with firearms occassionally, but don't regard it as a daily necessity in my life. As for knives, my Doce Pares background featured a fairly even mix of knife, stick, and empty hand. What anyone else thinks of that work is their drama to work through. Not mine. Same holds for my time with a local Modern Arnis group (about 5 years).

My FMA background is diverse and broad enough to address the questions I generally ask of it. That isn't to say that I can't expand my skillsets, including my knife defense and offense. Nor will I engage in needless idol worship. I can be objective about what a given teacher or style has to offer without sounding like a talking head.

I do also wonder how people like Tuhon Gaje and Tim Waid feel about being represented in this way. As unofficial spokespersons go, I expect they're underwhelmed.


Stuart

 

The problem with saying that one style of FMA is by far and away more advanced than the others is that it means I can disprove what you say by showing a very competent person from another style.


Here for example is Paul Vunak of JKD/Kali saying a lot of things I think you will agree with - that a lot of knife work is crap and that mentality counts massively. Except he is from a different style.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-EVLyIpts"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-EVLyIpts[/ame]

With people like Pat O'Malley of Rapid Arnis, Rey Galang of Bakbakan, Yuli Romo of Bahad Zubu, Bob Breen of JKD/Kali, Dan Inosanto, Jay Dobrin of BIFF, etc etc around, how do you come to the conclusion that PTK blade work is on an entirely different level?

How about a look at the late great Tatang Ilustrisimo
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4E_KorSZQI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4E_KorSZQI&feature=related[/ame]
That's a guy in his 90s who used his FMA in WW2 and if even a fraction of the anecdotes of his life are true, he was a force to be reckoned with. You can tell by the way he just picks the blade from the hand how comfortable he is with live swords.


Just to reaffirm what I wrote - I make sure I train correct use of the blade, what I said I do not train is expecting to be carrying a blade. Because? I don't carry one.

You asked what I would do if I can't placate the mugger. The answer is the first line of what you quoted - I train to fight if necessary. I prepare to use my skills as a last resort. I agree with the outline of your Hierarchy. I just don't think the way you post marries very well to that principle.

You can not believe that the best defence is not being there and simultaneously have the mentality 'I will pull a knife and stab someone'. They don't gel. I 'could', I 'can', even I 'train to' fit ok, but you write as if anyone not intending to walk straight out of class and cut up anyone and everyone has missed the point of FMA. I'm not convinced

 

John Steinbeck

It's sort of like a horse race, everyone started from the same point. Filipino culture facilitated full contact matches, bahad/juego todo was what they called it, roughly translates to balls out.

Pekiti Tirsia and a very few backyard groups today kept on running with it. Others, went for the silly uniforms, templates, merchandizing, tournaments, etc. and it just went down hill from there. This is not to say that there are no competent individuals in either side, only that when compared pound for pound, there is just a huge difference.

Have you guys heard stories of Inting Carin and the many royal rumbles he was involved in? Leo Giron. Juan LaCoste. Anciong Bacon went to jail for killing a man forchrissakes. GT Gaje's dad and uncles. You couldn't water down your art back then because you had to man up constantly. Nowadays, you have laws, shock blades, excuses, and more excuses. Everyone started out advanced.

Paul Vunak is probably not the best example since he interfaced with GT Gaje's group, now making up the bulk of the Dog Brothers, via Dan Inosanto in Southern California back in the 1980s.

You look at the man and his system and then look at how many top notch practitioners he's produced or influenced. Dan Inosanto took extensively from GT Gaje. Pekiti Tirsia has constantly pushed the envelope since the 1960s. You guys know about the FMAs because of this man. And he's never been known to water down his art, he doesn't fluff his curriculum just to add more because it's good business. That's the difference.

Tatang Illustrisimo is one of the originals he's up there with them. But then you gotta ask if his art trickled down. If his art produced other fighters in the same caliber as him. Did it keep on trickling down, or did they take the other path, the path taken by MA and DP. Have you guys ever heard of the phrase "From Tondo to Makati"?

You should've opened with that, instead of sounding like a naysayer. But then again, I'm sure simon s and Franz think they train "correct use of the blade" also and you read what I, a beginner of Pekiti Tirsia, wrote about their approach. Night and day, my friend.

Like I said, that hierarchy is for civilians, people who have that luxury of being able to say, "I'll never get knifed". People who have the luxury of being able to walk away, of being able to avoid eye contact. Some don't have that luxury.

Some live defensively and others live offense everyday of their lives. I'll leave you with a quote from Steinbeck:

"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win, There is no possible victory in defense, The sword is more important than the shield, And skill is more important than either, The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."

 

Death be not Proud

 

This type of thing is often quoted, I am fairly certain that Steinbeck understood neither sword or shield. If he did he would say something more akin to. In all attacks, you are defensive and in all defences you are attacking.
In knife fighting this is paramount. If you attack always without defence it allows your opponent to attack also. In historical edged weapon duels this was a very common outcome - double kill.
So you attack the opening with maintaining the correct measure, body alignment and intensity; you attack and defend in the same action. You press the attack by attacking a second opening created by the first attack. This is fundamentally different from ALWAY ATTACK.
Now if you lose the initiative and are forced in to a defensive action then while defending the incoming attack you have to simultaneously threaten with either the point or off hand. The allows you the chance to seize back the initiative.
There are no actions in which you only attack or you only defend. In all actions you are doing BOTH. You should never separate these actions, especially in edged weapons training. So when you look again at the videos that you critic, look for the opening created when people attack. Intensity is good but only once you understand and can identify the principles in each action.
At the moment you are at the beginning. So I always start with footwork as the foundation of all arts. Ensure your footwork is flawless. Study entries with the blade, as you are entering be aware of the opening you and your training partner are creating.
I will resort to Mr. Jay-Z to express on how you are coming over currently.

"You know the type - loud as a motor bike
But wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight"

The Bear.

 

Explain? Your use of smilies is mysterious and difficult to interpret.

 

Are we in the Karate sub-forum?

Well your quote sucks since it states the obvious, especially in FMA (we're not doing Karate here) and I still prefer Steinbeck's.

This is so basic. Do you train in Filipino Martial Arts, Polar? Like I said, we are not training Karate here where we block and punch. Simultaneous attacks and defenses is the trademark of the Filipino Martial arts. As much as I'd critique blade work in the FMAs, at least I know for sure that all the FMAs possess this same characteristic.

If you misunderstood, read back. I used Steinbeck's quote in reference to MN's question regarding mental attitude. I didn't use it as some sort of technical explanation.

Footwork? Are you even familiar with Pekiti Tirsia?

Beyonce has more street creds than her husband, Polar. I'll leave you with one of Chuck D's:

So check yo'self, before you wreck yo'self

 

Well, so far you have not added anything technical to the discussion and all you have done it refuse to hear anything from anyone else. I have tried everthing to encourage you to not take this route.

The Bear.