The definition of a traditional martial art

What does the phrase “traditional martial art” mean to you? and why?

What are the characteristics of a Traditional Martial Art?

I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

A (usually asian) martial art with a hierarchical structure usually based on a rigid student-teacher relationship.

Usually there are cultural trappings that are formalised.

There is a big focus on combat that is appropriate in a certain historical and cultural context.

Edit: had a think and removed pressure testing. Mostly it's the cultural elements that make styles traditional through the rigidity of passing traditions.

 

A traditional method is simply one that has been around for a period of time, and has been passed from one generation to the next, from elders to juniors (generally).

How long it has been around in order to qualify as traditional, is open to debate. The fact that it continues to exist for more than one generation speaks to its usefulness and continued relevance.

 

Pyjamas.

With a few debatable outliers, such as BJJ, Sambo and Kendo.

 

The trouble with that definition is that it would include arts that are not defined as TMA's, such as boxing or collegiate wrestling.

My answer may seem facetious on the face of it, but clothing does seem to be more consistent across styles considered TMA above any consistency of pedagogy or training methodology.

 

I would argue that a good portion of bjj is becoming a traditional style.
The Gracie jiu jitsu advocates do not believe in innovation beyond Rickson and Helio yet the MMA and no gi guys have shed themselves of the specific cultural uniform and moved away from Brazilian traditions and naming (arguably America leads the no-gi and MMA scene)

This move away from the traditions of Gracie jiu jitsu has allowed them to develop wall wrestling, absorb a number of leg lock strategies and include wrestling takedowns and submissions.

Adherence to an authority seem to be THE defining feature in traditional martial arts (whether that adherence to clothing, rituals, names, student teacher relationship, specific technique sets etc)

 

So maybe idolatry and conservatism in reverence of a master is a good defining quality?

I still think we're in danger of stretching the term as it is commonly used. I don't think many people would immediately call Gracie JJ, or Jun Fan JKD, TMA's.

 

Maybe but the attitudes are exactly the same as TMAs.
Even judo suffers it, they have such culturally and historically specific combat but luckily they've recognised themselves mostly as a sport with combative applications.

TMAs love to bill themselves as self defence based with a track record "proven in history "

 

Sure, but I'm coming at this as "what are the common tropes of martial arts known as TMA", not attempting to come up with a consistent definition that may encompass MA that are not commonly called TMA. I hope the difference makes sense... I'm coming at it like a lexicographer, not a taxonomist.

 

I have observed that the coach in boxing and wrestling tend to be treated with a high level of respect and that this respect plays an important role in shaping the student teacher relationship. with a considerable impact on mindset. In your opinion is this different from the adherence to an authority in traditional arts. If so, how does it differ ?

 

error

 

commonly used by whom?

Most disciplines have there own subject specific use of words. it could be argued that there are at least 3 legitimate groups using 3 separate but equally valid definitions of "traditional art". e.g. those with no martial arts experience at all, those who practice what that they consider to be a non traditional art, and those who practice what they consider to be a traditional martial art.

in your opinion , should there be more than one use of the term? if not what group should get to define it? and Why?

 

A Definition of trope
1a: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : FIGURE OF SPEECH

b: a common or overused theme or device : CLICHÉthe usual horror movie tropes

2: a phrase or verse added as an embellishment or interpolation to the sung parts of the Mass in the Middle Ages


In your opinion what is the value of using tropes to define traditional martial arts?

 

Martial artists.

It seems that there is a large degree of agreement as to what MA fall under the banner of TMA.

If you want to find a definition, how else will you do that without looking at common themes?

 

was seeking clarification of your use of the word trope.

It seems to me that all martial arts suffer to some extent from definition by Cliché (overused theme or device), if someone says the word "boxer" to you ,what image does it bring to mind? If some one says the words "female boxer", what image does this bring to mind?

Taking trope to mean common theme rather than cliché. you state common amongst martial artists. to which group of martial artists do you refer? and why in your opinion, should it be this group that defines traditional arts?

 

Boxing and collegiate wrestling would qualify as traditional martial arts, in my opinion. In some regions, there is a long tradition of practicing these methods, that may have sprung from earlier folk methods.

The garb or the way people go about practicing it may change over time. But in a traditional martial art, it is simply something that has existed and been passed along for some generations.

If I create my own method today and put on a gi, and create my own forms, it is in no way a traditional martial art. If the method proves effective and I teach it to some folks who likewise pass it along, after some generations it might be considered traditional. But not today, regardless of what I wear or my forms.

 

I honestly feel that the term traditional is not useful when speaking of the martial arts. Some people use it to imply superiority, others to imply inferiority. It gets thrown around in ways that are rather meaningless.

Maybe a better way is simply to recognize that some systems are older than others, or have roots in older methods. Regardless, they are all still practiced today which makes them current and contemporary. Hell, even the newest MMA methods are rooted in much older methods. Nothing springs forth fully formed in a vacuum. Newer systems, older systems, it’s all the same.

Perhaps the only meaningful designation would be an extinct method, if it is known for sure that nobody trains it anymore. But even those can be resurrected in a modern reinterpretation, like the HEMA methods, which then makes it also contemporary.

So really, what’s the point in the labels? I don’t see much.

 

In my years training in a few methods that would probably be called traditional, Ive never experienced this. We have always held respect for our ancestors and founders of the method, but it is nowhere even close to idolatry. It is just honoring those who came before us., without whom we would not be training today.

Some schools can develop a cult-like culture, but that in no way is definitive of older “traditional” methods. There are plenty of folks today who found a brand new system and want to insist their students follow them like they are a messiah. That is simply a character flaw of the individual and not ingrained in a martial method.

 

All martial artists. I've never known anyone other than martial artists use the term "traditional martial arts".

The fora under "Traditional Martial Arts" on MAP are a fair representation of MA that come under the "traditional" umbrella, as you would expect. There are a couple that some might disagree with, but that could be about not having anywhere else to put them as much as anything.