The Change from Daito Ryu

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by TheMasterSword, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. TheMasterSword

    TheMasterSword Cunning Linguist

    Hello everyone I wanted the opinions of all fellow aikidokas (kyu to dans).... what are your opinions on the changes from daito ryu ju jutsu to aikido...

    right now im taking aikido as well as ju jutsu and both compliment each other.... i have noticed slight but IMPORTANT differences in let's say the waki gatame (pinky finger up/down, body positioned differently)

    anyone know of any other differences/changes (besides the obvious ones like ripping off someone's skull waza :) )???
     
  2. TheMasterSword

    TheMasterSword Cunning Linguist

    **side note - my intentions for this thread was to get some discussion BESIDES "hey aikido can't work in a fight" :Angel:

    hopefully we'll see better threads come up
     
  3. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    [Mod On]

    Any 'Aikido doesn't work in a real fight' comments in this thread WILL be deleted! Keep to the topic!

    You have been warned!

    [Mod Off]

    The Goshindo Tai Jitsu I practice is decended from Daito Ryu as well. This could be interesting :D

    As to pinky up/down, doesn't that just depend on where you are in relation to the guys arm? ;)

    Col
     
  4. TheMasterSword

    TheMasterSword Cunning Linguist

    well concerning the pinky finger up is usually done in our ju jutsu to kinda come straight down on the arm for the break... in our aikido we over extend the pinky so its facing away from you making it more of a lock than a break (even though with enough force it prolly could break or at least that what its felt like from fellow aikidokas)

    also aikido's kote gaeshi is very circular making larger circular movements for the wrist turn... in ju jutsu its a small turn for the break (wrist never leaves belt height)
     
  5. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    "Any 'Aikido doesn't work in a real fight' comments in this thread WILL be deleted! Keep to the topic!"

    That’s what I like to see... But I think it's tantamount to a dare.. but good on you for saying it.



    I too would be very interested to learn of the similarities/differences in Daito Ryu and Aikido, alas I haven't had any exposure to Daito Ryu as a system.



    Look forward to those comment from those who have.



    Dave
     
  6. warren

    warren Valued Member

    i currently train in aiki jujutsu ( back to shihonage ) i've noticed when we practice shihonage we keep the elbow and wrist in line with uke's shoulder rather than taking it over the shoulder as in aikido.
    while on the subject of differences in the way techniques are applied between daito ryu and aikido how about hakko ryu jujutsu is that more like daito ryu or aikido in the way the techniques are executed as hakko ryu is also a system based largely on daita ryu.
     
  7. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Shihonage, I trained in Shodokan Aikido under MAP member Tintin, and they keep the uke's arm vertical and use it as a throw/takedown.

    In Goshindo Tai Jitsu, we take the arm and angle it to apply more pressure on the shoulder/elbow the purpose being a break.

    Col
     
  8. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN New Member

    I try to 'agree' with what they are doing and then put it back at them.

    Just now, anyway.

    PMs on this are appreciated :)
     
  9. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I'm not sure about Diato Ryu (never actualy seen it done) but I've seen some Aikido schools perform tenchinage more like a forearm smash. I've always been told to perform it with one hand stretching uke to take ukes posture and the other hand comes down from above right between the eyes.

    I've seen the kotegaeshi with the big circles and stuff. I was always under the impression that was just to show the movement more clearly. All out kotegaeshi are at one point level with a few exceptions invoving a simualtaniouse throw and removing a tanto from ukes hand.

    As a Ki Aikido student I think the emphasis on ki has been one of the most important developments. The ki development exorcises realy do help with things like stability and awareness.
     
  10. TheMasterSword

    TheMasterSword Cunning Linguist

    from a tomiki perspective:

    the "big" circles def show movement more clearly... but from personal experience... ie. experiences a aiki kote gaeshi and a ju jutsu kote gaeshi... with the ju jutsu kote gaeshi (if done with enough intent) will pretty much snap those tiny wrist bones because force/weight are going one way and the wrist the other in a tight circle (almost like drawing your finger around your belly button)....

    with our aiki i find that the kote "big" circle movement rather than "snap" the wrist bones (which the technique prolly could but i dont believe that's not our intention) alleviates (sp?) pressure from the wrist and sends it to the elbow up to the shoulder ..throughout the entire body........ pretty much throwing someone by simply getting a hold of someone's hand

    i feel that o'sensei intentions were not to go around snappin people's arms but to blend with the attack and control it... and i starting to realize this more and more i study the techniques of aiki and ju.. much like the previous discussions of the shiho nage (tenkai kote gaeshi) change.. we could be ju jutsu people and take that arm at the vunerable spot and snap it but instead we unbalance our opponent and merely "walk" to throw them
     
  11. Virtuous

    Virtuous New Member

    Which ryu of aiki jujutsu? Wouldnt be Dai Yoshin Ryu would it? the shihonage sounds very similiar to ours. Our tenkan irimi nage is also very different from most aikido ryu I have seen.

    Kudos to Mastersword for starting a thread worth discussing.
     
  12. warren

    warren Valued Member

    virtuous,
    i practice aiki jujutsu with sensie k morgan,his web site is www.aikijujutsu.co.uk the name of the group is shin gi tai schools of juko ryu aiki jujutsu.
    on the web site you can find out all about the clubs background probably better than i could explain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2004
  13. warren

    warren Valued Member

    when putting in the web address ignore the word the at the end which i can't seem to edit out once more the web address is www.aikijujutsu.co.uk
     
  14. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Yes sword i agree O Sensei definatly wanted us to aviode breaking bones. I also prefer the more natural upright posture we use. It's just so much easier to move around like this and the wide low stances I feel leave certain very sensative parts of the body too vulnerable to a swift kick.
     
  15. Virtuous

    Virtuous New Member

    Juko Ryu or 'combat ki' as it is nick named was created by the founder of Juko Kai Intl. Juko Kai is the controlling body of Dai Yoshin Ryu Bujutsu which contains aikijutsu, iai/kenjutsu, and a few other arts.
    [​IMG]

    The man standing next to Inohue Sensei is wearing a juko kai intl sensei patch.

    Are you fairly new to Aikijutsu? It is pretty unusual for some one not to know their art's ryu.
     
  16. aikiscotsman

    aikiscotsman Banned Banned

    Nice website, have you got enough badges on yer gi?
     
  17. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Combat Ki ... I saw that in a program on discovery channel when they were showing the XMA thing just before The Last Samurai came out over here. It just looked like a fat american teaching people how to be bullies and making money out of it at the same time. Can't say I was impressed.
     
  18. warren

    warren Valued Member

    hi virtuous,
    i didn't say i new nothing about my school i merely suggested if you looked at my club's web site the info you asked for is put much better put than i could put it.
    i have been training for about 6 years and hold a shodan rank,if you read about my instructor's history you'll see that the teaching we receive can be traced right back to gunji koizumi who studied many forms of jujutsu the style we practise is very similar to tenjin shin'yo ryu.
    you will all be glad to know the badge wearing is limited these days as back when that photo was taken my instructor was with richard morris hanshi the then chairman of the british jiu-jitsu association,and co-director of the world jiu jitsu federation,personally i choose not to wear any badges.
    anymore questions i can help you with just ask i'll do my best to answer.
     
  19. warren

    warren Valued Member

    aikiwolfie,
    the combat ki you saw on the tv is nothing to do with the art i practise having said that i've saw a video with one of their top students taking some mind blowing shots to the throat,groin etc that are amazing,however the style of my club is juko ryu aiki-jujutsu and this reflects the philosophy and principles of the training and methods of combat. ryu(school) ju (soft/pliant) ku (hard) and so on ,so basically we are a school of the soft and hard arts of compliancy with harmonised power.
    not a bunch of nutters that take it in turns to punch each other senseless,i personally took up martil arts to protect myself not to be a human punch bag as these people like doing.
     
  20. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I never said it was but if it's juko ryu as in juko kai http://www.jukokai.com/index.php then there are cleare affliations. It's not an attack on what you do warren just comenting that the stuff I saw on tv was total bull.
     

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