The Bunkai Thread

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Llamageddon, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    This might have been tried once before, but hey...

    Inspiration from another thread made me start this, so lets pick a kata the majority of us (hopefully) know and analyse the possible bunkai of it. I suppose really it doesn't matter too much which kata we pick as we'll all know the moves pretty much.

    Anyone have any suggestions?
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    jion? it's pretty much universal and not too advanced. it also has a lot of inter-style variations, so it should be very interesting.
  3. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    If you're lucky I might detail the bunkai for Hangetsu that involves fighting several weasels.

    We came up with it in the pub last year.

    You wouldn't want to be the weasel.
  4. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    a bunkai thread pulled OT by a mod on the third post, an interesting omen :D
    that said, moose vs. squirrels, my money's on the moose(unless he's a biker)
  5. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    my primary issue here is the solitary nature of weasels. unless you find a mating pair, there's really no utility in having multiple weasel attackers - and even then, they're probably going to be more interested in fighting each other.
  6. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    If we can't see moosey vs weasels then i vote kankudai/kusanku as it covers multiple styles and has quite alot of movements common to other kata.
  7. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    will that one involve weasels, too?

    I don't mind which one we opt for in the end, although it would be good to look at jion. It's probably the one I know best out of the ones mentioned.

    Although, as Kanku Dai is basically just a mash up of the heian katas and bassai dai, I also don't mind that one!
  8. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Jion sounds good. Who's gonna start us off then?
  9. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    First move - gedan barai/uchi uke. I would interpret it as either a break (although why it would start like that I don't know), or possibly trapping the arm... I would argue that it's mostly defensive in nature - it could even be used just to create distance
  10. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    from the ****o-ryu POV (first move done in sanchin dachi), it can be either just the two blocks(done one after the other), or maybe a gedan barai and an ura tsuki/otoshi uraken, or a deflection/underhook and a tetsui to the groin, thigh or hipbone. a break is also possible, but more applicable to the shotokan version due to the stance.

    as for the start kamae, for shotokan it could be interpreted as a head punch(grab head+bam) after a close range lapel grab or front choke attempt. for ****o ryu one might consider the same kind of attack, using the arm motion to deflect the attacker's arms to the side, then underhook and groin tetsui.

    i have a couple of jion bunkai videos, i'll check them out tonight wen i get back from the dojo and post a bit more
  11. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Or preemptive striking to the abdomen with a low level punch and striking to the head as it comes forward. Entirely offensive.
  12. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Ok now we are talking. I've never been one to buy into the "all Katas start with a defensive technique" thing.
  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i never even heard of the "all katas start with a defensive technique" thing :p.
  14. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I assume we are treating Kata as bilateral so any move on the right could also be on the left? And because we should be adaptable, once you know the Kata you should be able to switch sides at any point in time if the circumstances dictate?

    For example, its been a few years since I did Jion, but the move I described set you up perfectly for the right hand variant of the double strike, should you need to follow through (or you could just use that against a head butt).
  15. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    A misinterpretation of the "Karate ne sente Nashi" code has left many Karateka to beleive that it is wrong to assume that Katas "could" start with an offensive move.
  16. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    In his later years Funakoshi did seem to imply that he meant it as not striking first - hence his being ashamed on an occasion where he took the offensive against someone about 50 years his junior. But, as you say Gary, that phrase does not say that you should not take the offensive, more that you shouldn't create the conflict in the first place.
  17. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Quite right.

    I've got a little story about the whole KNSN Thingy if you are interested.
  18. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I never turn down an opportunity to 'hear' a new story - particularly as I'm working on a project that relates to the precepts.
  19. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    Oooh ooh I'm interested in a general way. But if it's one of those 'I'll tell you mr X but not everyone because of the content', I'll completely understand!
  20. GaryWado

    GaryWado Tired

    Of course, please bear in mind this is purely "anecdotal", but I think that there is mileage in it.

    I posted this on another Forum a few months ago, and due to pure laziness (and the fact that I was engaged in great discussions with a certain member of this board until the wee hours), I have just copied it here. It is mine though honest Guv.

    As Karate grew in popularity when it was first introduced into mainland Japan (Funakoshi and co), the authorities grew concerned that Karate could get out of hand, particularly following reported incidents of unofficial Karate competition on street corners etc.

    The KNSN became a sort of Karate "Slogan" in an attempt to clean up its perceived image amongst the Japanese public.

    You also have to bear in mind that Karate came to Japan from Okinawa and at the time (and still to an extent today), the mainland Japanese looked down their noses at anything Okinawan, particularly when it came to a martial art. After all, Japan already had a very rich heritage of Budo, and this new Okinawan art of Karate would almost certainly lack in the refinement of such arts as Kenjutsu and Jujutsu.

    Karate was coarse, crass even, so it was an image "up-shift" more than anything else.

    Apply a set of rules (like this) to something and you not only have a way to control the action of others, you also absolve yourself from responsibility of their actions.

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