The basics of knife "defense"

Discussion in 'Articles' started by aml01_ph, Feb 19, 2006.

  1. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    On another website there's been some talk about a "shock knife" basically a metal trainer that delivers a pretty hefty shock. On of the members will be using one this weekend and reporting back.

    As I've posted there, I really don't know how I feel about that one.

    - Matt
     
  2. Jesh

    Jesh Dutch Side Of The Force

    I'm curious as to how it will work out... I can see it working in training. However some of those stun guns they sell here over the border in Germany and Belgium (which are illegal in my country) pack a hefty punch.
     
  3. Saturnine138

    Saturnine138 Valued Member

    There isnt really a proper weight/balance for throwing a knife. Assuming you know how to throw, you can make almost anything stick. There's also an underhand technique thats used to throw it like a spear so there's no rotation.

    I've seen an add for the shock training knives, they were ridiculously expensive.
     
  4. Shadow_of_Evil

    Shadow_of_Evil wants to go climbing...

    friend and me had some wooden sticks that had a knife-like shape. We had some black paint and we covered the "edge" with the fresh paint. when we engaged.

    Or what we call, 'The Texture (marker) test)
    :)
     
  5. glenchuy

    glenchuy has two left feet

    i trained with espada y daga for about 2 years before training in unarmed MAs, the one thing i can add is that when you are stabbed with a knife near a vital part/organ, DO NOT under consequences, remove the knife unless you are under direct medical supervision. under duress, you really can't "distinguish" the pain from getting stabbed in the vital organs, to being stabbed in the non-vital areas. of course, if it's an obvious area, like the arm, you can remove them... if you can bear the additional pain and gore.

    we trained using wooden knives for obvious reasons, and the edges were coated in lipstick. combat became interesting when it was knife vs knife, or knives vs knives. if your assailant knows what he is doing, there is almost no way you are going to escape without any form of cut if you confront the assailant.

    in my experience, my best bet was to sidestep a lot to keep your assailant guessing, and to your legs to keep them at bay, all you need is one decent kick in the groin. HOWEVER, this was during class, where running was never an option, IRL, it is almost always best to just run.

    fighting hand vs knife is almost like a no win situation. have you tried to box without blocking or parrying?
     
  6. cdnronin

    cdnronin Valued Member

    So, you would prefer to stay within range of a deadly weapon? Sound advice.
     
  7. Shadow_of_Evil

    Shadow_of_Evil wants to go climbing...

    Let's put it this way. You don't want to leg it from a knife fight JUST INCASE the attacker can throw a knife at you. So, staying close makes it less likely a thrown knife would hit you?
    I'd love it if the attacker threw the knife at me as I was making my get away. Chances are it'll miss, disarming the attacker and possibly giving me a chance to arm myself.
     
  8. splodge

    splodge New Member

    I think that you should have two targets when confronted with a knife attack
    1. escape
    2. control

    Your primary objective is to get out of the situation i.e. run like a whippet. If that is not possible then you need to control the knife arm whilst creating the opportunity to escape. If that involves locks, strikes, stamps then great whatever you comfortable with but the idea still remains to get out of the situation so if you just redirect the motion and can get past to run do that, whatever works.

    As a side point one thing that is rarely trained against in my experience is the attacker holdin the knife in the rear hand yet the vast majority of accomplished knife fighters will adopt this approach to protect the weapon and use it to cut you to pieces on the counter, lesson of the day is to run even faster if they are holding the knife in their rear hand because they probably know how to use it effectively!
     
  9. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Now I know they actually exist...Any follow up on this?
     
  10. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    If you are fighting a knife fighter and you're still breathing, unless there is something really wrong, you can get the heck out of dodge or hand over the wallet.

    I think starting from the assumption of a west-side-story knife fight is fanasty and movies getting the best of you.

    Put a different way, if you are facing an "accomplished knife fighter" you won't know that you are in a fight, or a fight with a knife, until that knife is sticking out of your heart, lung, stomach, kidney, arm pit, neck, or femoral artery.

    - Matt
     
  11. splodge

    splodge New Member

    Having never seen west-side-story i do not have your insights but based on around 15 years of martial arts and military training I thought it was a valid point to make that you should practice against attackers holding the knife in their rear hand..........the worst that can happen by this training is you get just a supporting role in your local west-side-story :D

    Get out of dodge or handing over your wallet is fine if that is going to give you a get out of jail card but what if its your girlfriend that the guy wants or he is hell bent of sticking you? Your wallet handover technique then may not save you I am afraid whereas training for that eventuality may.

    To not train against this is simply crazy, you are kidding yourself and not covering the options of an attack. An accomplished knife fighter maybe open to a knee stomp with the stance they take up or they may not the point is your training should give you ideas and options not ingorance.

    It is also common especially in the rural parts of the USA for people to carry knives, so you should train to defend against them in case you cant get out of dodge.
     
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    rule # 1 on knife fighting

    never be the guy without the knife!
     
  13. tetsu ryu

    tetsu ryu Death is always a option!

     
  14. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    The idea I had when I wrote the first post is to outline a general method of assessing the risks and options of engaging the guy with a knife. This includes judging the other guy's skill with reference to the distance between you.

    I don't favor running because it makes you turn your back, which in turn increases the risk of you being stabbed. You do not know whether he or she has the tactical skill to throw the knife at you which again is a huge gamble. Moreover, there is the fact that your attacker can run too and since you don't know his or her running speed well...

    Regardless of whether the guy is a professional assassin or just a plain mugger, the basics remain the same.
     
  15. leon_x

    leon_x Dai Low

    well i dont think just a plain mugger will go into all that effort into chasing someone. i might be wrong but the majority of the times, the mugger will just let you run away.

    a professional assassin is a complete different thing. im sure if one wanted to kill you, you wouldnt even know he was there. most people will encounter a knife attacker by a random person on the street. i do think the best option is to run away but if that is not an option than you literally have to fight for your life and hope u dont get stabbed.
     
  16. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    A good question you can ask yourself is whether you are competent enough to assess your attacker's level of desperation much less his or her skill.

    So the basics of defending yourself against a knife changes because you are facing a professional hitman? :rolleyes: Besides if you can't see where the assassin is comeing from the discussion becomes academic doesn't it?
     
  17. tetsu ryu

    tetsu ryu Death is always a option!

    lol i didnt think there was anything basic about knife defense. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  18. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Really? I got taught the how to sprint when I was 8.
     
  19. ghoststyle

    ghoststyle New Member

    I would like to add to this;
    You should avoid kicking your attacker, just in case you do get the chance to run you don't want to try and run with a a cut leg.

    When I was training in my BJJ we did do a little of the marker knife training and it is down right scary to see the results. We worked on staying to the other side of the knife and working in a pattern that would throw off the attackers sense of balance then subdue them, but at least you should try and get ahold of the weapon arm or hand to avoid any more injury if any at all. Never take on someone if you have the chance to walk or run away, a credit card and money can be replaced, organs are harder to come by these days.
     
  20. Tartovski

    Tartovski Valued Member

    HUh? When on earth would it be a better idea to leave the guy with a Knife?

    ALWAYS disarm I say.
     

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