TFA nit picking

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Late for dinner, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    OK I'm not an expert on Star Wars but I hate it when movies seem to be confusing enough that you have to ignore lots of stuff to make the plot believable.

    So here's your chance to show me that this isn't really important stuff and that things hold together even with the nits that seem to be popping up in my head.

    Here goes the first one..

    So what IS going on here? Is this movie about a coup attempt by the vestiges of the armies that supported the empire but now serve the republic? Are they ticked off that the republic is sort of friendly with the rebels that brought the empire down? They are the same storm troopers (or not since they used to all be clones didn't they?) and they were the ones that supported the empire? The first order seems to be a fascist group within the armed forces that has been infiltrated/aligned with the sith guy who is their supreme leader. The emperor was a sith and gained control of the republic senate before becoming declared the emperor. Perhaps the supreme leader was a similar character that was present within the military.

    And speaking further on the military, doesn't it seem quite odd how you have a soldier/storm trooper who has been indoctrinated since childhood in supporting the cause who all of a sudden has a 180 degree change of culture(Fin) which comes across much like a samurai deciding that it's wrong to kill in the middle of his first major battle. So he was previously on latrine duty etc...does that make one betray the causes that he was brought up to believe in.. in really is a stretch that soldiers would be that easily swayed/fickle.

    Come on people, help me make sense of this..

    Ok a bit of an over ramble.. I wait for you who have seen the movie to come to my aid!!

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    The Plot:

    Bring back a sequel after a decade using some original cast, same jargon, technology-ships, light sabers, etc, make ,$$$$,$$$,$$$

    The Lure;
    People desire to see the plot continue. (No different than LOR, HP, ST, etc.)
  3. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Unfortunately, I can't help you because I have the same issues (plus loads more) with the plot.

    To follow on from your Finn issues, I don't understand how he can get all worked up and defect because he doesn't like killing people, but then has no problem shooting any Stormtrooper who comes near him in the rest of the film. Plus, given his upbringing/indoctrination, I find a lot of his behaviour/humour/borderline hysteria inappropriate and jarring.

    I realise that JJ has avoided the politics because of the criticisms that the prequels received, but by doing so, it leaves us confused at the state of the galaxy, provides no real explanation about what happened in the last 30 odd years and doesn't give us a context to why things are where they are. For me, at least, it would have made more sense to not have Leia being a general in the Resistance, but have her as a general in the New Republic army, fighting the last remnants of the Empire.
  4. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Very good points made by everyone that I hadn't even noticed lol!

    Here's what got me:

    1) Rey starts out as a orphan character stuck on a desert planet... just like Luke in ANH.

    2) The Empire is gone but oh wait not it isn't! It's more or less the same Empire only with bigger ships and weapons.

    3) "Big weapon that can destroy planets? Well it worked in 2009 with Star Trek, I'll chuck in here too" JJ Abrams

    4) Our heroes are trapped in a big space ship (not once, but twice). Que dramatic escape. Again, right from the original trilogy.

    5) And just like Luke had to go off and find Yoda... Daisy goes off to find Luke to become a Jedi, as Luke had a bad egg in the bunch that ruined things and made him not want to be a Jedi anymore. Just like Yoda in the original trilogy.

    There were loads more. I think it is very squarely aimed at kids who haven't seen the original movies. It was a portmanteau of the original trilogy.

    That said, still an entertaining movie.
  5. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    More grumbles from me...

    The Starkiller weapon is, frankly, stupid. It is stuck on a planet, drains the sun after a few shots and then what? Seems like a massive waste of effort to build it. At least the Death Star could move around and target multiple planets (plus how DO they target the Starkiller)

    I find Luke pulling a Yoda, very unbelievable. At least when Ben Kenobi went into exile, it could be argued that he was watching over Luke.

    Plus, there's a map, complete with little dotted lines, to find Luke?! Do me a favour, has no-one heard of coordinates?

    It seems to me they've gone down the 'cool story, bro' route with a lot of the plot elements, without any thought about how it actually fits in with what has gone before or what has been established as how the Star Wars universe works.
  6. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    You know in my opinion it had this sort of feel

    Disneyfied... [ame][/ame]

    Even included Maximilian Schell again

  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    It''s just not a very good film, and the plot is nonsensical.

  8. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    As a bit of popcorn entertainment I enjoyed watching it. As part of the Star Wars universe, it has major, major issues.

    I felt JJ's Star Treks had the same (if not worse) issues. He shouldn't be allowed to play with other people's toys!
  9. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I don't think it's a bad film, just doesn't feel like Star Wars. Yes, the youngsters love it but that doesn't make it true to the theme of the series.

    Oh and here is another bugaboo
    What is it with the stupid monsters that attack the people threatening Han Solo? It was like looney tunes with cartoon characters shlumping about. Here these things swallow up half a dozen guys and then conveniently drag Fin about without doing anything? Oh and it is Disney with no blood, no kissing (even where appropriate) and what happened to Leia's voice? I thought it couldn't have seemed more out of place...

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  10. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    I was reading a blog post about the original reviews of the Phantom Menace over lunch. At the time, they were overall pretty positive. It was only after the hype monster died down that people seemed to look at it in the cold light of day.

    TFA is far better than TPM, but I think after people calm down they will re-evaluate the film. I mean, most people are praising this as one of the best films ever made. They're either delusional or their entire cinematic experience has been limited to TFA and Police Academy 7:Mission to Moscow.

    At the very most, it's an entertaining popcorn movie aimed towards a young audience with enough in it to entertain older generations. I haven't heard any compelling reason why it's more than that.
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    There are a few people who feel the same. I enjoyed it first watching, even though it left me cold and with some discomfort over the characters. I enjoyed it a bit more second time round as I new what to expect. Third time round, I started to dislike a lot of it. Even the dialogue doesn't feel 'grand' enough for Star Wars. In places it sounds like it was written by a wannabe hip teenager. I kept expecting Poe to call Finn 'bro' or 'dude'! :bang:
  12. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    The monster scene was dreadful. It was like a bad comedy parody of a bad episode of Farscape. All that stupid manic crawling under the deck, Rey releasing the wrong switch, Finn being a screamy wimp, not to mention the ridiculousness of the 2 criminal gangs arriving at exactly the same time and having no trouble getting onto the ship or Han conveniently being at the right spot to run into Rey and Finn! GRRRRR! :bang::bang:

    I'm putting Leia's voice down to stress and an accident at some point in the past in which her vocal cords were damaged!

    This thread over at The covers all the issues people are having with the film (it's currently 38 pages long!)
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I've watched it twice now...2nd being on Lazer iMax.

    I still have the same issues with the film as I mentioned before. Saw a continuity error (Kylo Ren's cloak, disappears and re appears within the base in the 3rd act)

    I still can't get over John Boyega's accent (he's from Peckham, London) and Daisy Ridley has the funniest run.

    But I actually liked her performance this time around.

    I tore this film apart when I first saw it. I'm the kind of person who watches a film, brain empty and then analyse it after. I still got emotional twice and still went "whoa" in some bits.
    As much as I have a lot of issues with this film and I could probably tear it further to pieces, I still give it a 4/5.
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Leia's voice is not due to stress....the woman is nearly 70yrs old. It just aged...although there's so much botox, C3PO had more facial movement...(sorry Carrie)
  15. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I'm so glad I'm not the only one who noticed the run! It's like she's taking steps that are too short for her legs! I find her performance a little too hyper (kind of like the run), but it's not one of the major issues I have.
  16. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Stress and age are my reasons. I found C3PO excessively annoying in this film. Almost as annoying as in the prequels!
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Watching the original trilogy again, his performance is actually quite similar throughout.
    It's hard to blame JJ for a lot of these, as he has to live up to a generation's worth of nostalgia.

    He has done well with it so far, I feel. The use of real sets, right emotional beats. If it wasn't essentially a remake of Ep4 and throwing in celeb cameos (nudge/winks) maybe I'll feel different.

    However I also have to remember that this is simply 1/3 of a whole. And the film is made to be that way and not as a potential stand alone.

    I'm excited to see more of the Knights of Ren. It was very manga samurai/ronin gang like, with potentially different weapons (I saw one that may have either a giant axe or club).

    What I dont like is that I have to wait 2 years for Ep8 and 4 years for Ep9
  18. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    3PO wasn't as annoying in the original films. He did get much more annoying in the prequels though.

    Although the film is the first in a trilogy, I think there are far too many things that are left hanging or not made clear in it. Many of these could have been answered by dropping or reducing some of the action scenes and actually giving us a bit of background - e.g. the state of the galaxy, a bit more on the planets that got blown up (so we might actually care about the destruction). I have no problem with some unanswered questions being taken forth into the next film, but there are too many minor things that don't make sense.
  19. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Oh yes he was. :p
  20. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I should have put more emphasis on the word 'AS'. He was annoying in the original, he just got much, much worse in the prequels! :)

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