Text Books for 4th - 5th - and above?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by tulsa, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Fair enough...... of course, then one has to ask where the idea of "collaborative effort" comes in. In such a case, the obvious result would be nay-sayers declaring that the end result was merely KS through your own eyes. I had the impression that folks thought this topic important enough that a range of KS practitioners----of varying POV---would want to share their views on the nature and organization of the material. Is this not the case? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  2. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    FWIW, Bruce, I have the exact same impression as yourself. However, if like you, I run into a bunch of people who merely SAY they want to collaborate, but fail to *show up at the table* when push comes to shove, then I'll have no recourse but to go it alone, right? I also think I can live with *naysayers* claiming it's "just my take" on kuk-sool, since it essentially would be (although many of my views I adopted from some of the more well-known & respected masters of this art, according to your *scenario* it WOULD be presented from my POV and no one else's). Who knows, maybe I can convince some notable personages to write a forward (hopefully praising the work), and perhaps that would reconcile any such gripes about the content being too one-sided. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  3. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Well.... fwiw...I'd be willing to chip-in where possible. One thing I have noticed though, and this observation comes not just from KMA but also from seeking after an ESL position in Korea.

    I am finding that it is a well-known dynamic....at least in the ESL-EFL community in Korea---- that Koreans love to talk out of many sides of their mouths, simultaneously. Sometimes I think this is the single most enduring quality that they have passed to we Westerners regarding Korean traditions. Its very odd but communicating with folks in Korea concerning matters NOT related to KMA, I am finding much of the same mixed messages, double standards and under-handed dealings.

    I know what I just said sounds very negative, but I am stating this up-front---of all things--- as a form of encouragement to you. Yes, I know it sounds weird, but consider this. Knowing what I know now about how Koreans generally relate to folks "not-Korean", tells me that we Americans place way too much faith in Korean leadership to deal with Westerners above-board. I spent many years of my own MA career filtering each little choice I made under the cloud of a Korean teacher and a Korean organization. When my teacher went away, I found myself "standing on the street", as it were. Thats how much all of that "loyalty" and "respect" meant. I would hate to see you make the same mistake.

    If I had it to do over again, I would have made some very different (aka: "selfish")choices. What I think I am working to convey is the importance of not adjusting or modifying your dream project in deference to anyone who is not moving in the same direction as yourself. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  4. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Thanks for the *warning* but I've experienced the same thing BION, i.e. with regard to the way Koreans tend to treat ALL non-Koreans, and so it's not like I'd be trying to impress anyone, least of all anyone with squinchy eyes. :D

    No, if I do it at all, it will be for myself AND also to aid & assist anyone wanting to learn this particular view on TKMA. :cool:
     
  5. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    Would be nice to have a hard copy of the material, especially for those "students" who move to an area that doesn't have a school. But I think I would just film myself during testing or instructor training, instead of having a text. I hate the texts now, I often just use youtube when I cant jar the material out of my thick head.
     
  6. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Well....true enough.....but I also thought we were talking about informing people at a level above the common geuppies. If this is truly the goal then I suggest that we are talking about something above merely the media or modality to be used. There is also the matter of evoking higher understanding, otherwise the effort falls to the level seen in upper TKD circles: "Another rank; another form", right?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  7. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    First of all, Evil Twin, let me say that it's good to see you still peruse this forum AND that you chose to pitch in your POV. :cool:

    But as to "just using youtube" in order to jar one's memory, what I find on that particular medium is mostly clips of the forms or other demo material, and rarely can you find the techniques, at least in their entirety. Granted, there are the beginner-level sets in those old super-8 movies that He Young Kimm took of In Hyuk Suh (posted by Gene Gause), but higher level sets are harder to come by. Admittedly, I don't rely on YouTube for jogging MY memory, so I'm not familiar if what I mentioned is available or not, although I kinda doubt it since I'm fairly sure it would pop up in the "related videos" field, right?

    At any rate, the idea is not to churn out yet another "reference guide" which any *scholar* would have to admit is the way that what's currently available is presented (i.e. the textbooks by Dr. Kimm, WKSA, etc.). No, the hope for this new project is that the material be presented so that anyone, including someone totally unfamiliar with MA, could follow what's written AND if they have a good understanding of sports related crossover concepts, could easily take the information and "run with it" so to speak, producing as good a student as any master/instructor. Not so much in an attempt to eliminate or bypass the need for MA instructors, but more as a way to help insure that the quality of instruction doesn't falter (realistically, the details covered may be too boring for your average MA practitioner, and I suspect that only instructors would bother with reading, AND rereading, the content). Let's face it, step-by-step textbooks written by Koreans born mid 20th century already exist, and making yet another textbook along these lines wouldn't fair too well IMO. So the ideal thing to create would be a pair of *companion* volumes, where the first instruction manual would be written with the student in mind as the "audience" and the second instruction manual would be written with the instructor as the audience. Just think what a boon for the MA instructor this would be!

    I'm not fooling myself, however, as I don't think I'm capable of producing the "ideal textbooks" I described above WITHOUT collaborative input, but such a reference guide is what I'd like to see eventually come about (and if it has *companion* DVDs as well [or some other suitable video format], then all the better IMO). My goal is not to turn a profit by producing a *superior* textbook, but rather to ensure that those who want to learn (or teach) kuk-sool with QUALITY as a main objective, then they will have the resources to do so, and all in one convenient place. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  8. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Hmmmmm.....gotta chew on this one for a bit.

    As a frame of reference, I immediately think of the scrolls that various traditions handed out to their practitioners. The idea wasn't to provide a move-by-move analysis of the material but to provide a "touchstone" by which a person could hold to his path and not forget any of the major techniques or concepts. In all of the cases I am familiar with, the recorded material did not obviate the need for a teacher but supported, asffirmed and structured the material the teacher shared.

    I know that modern technology has provided some pretty great options. One of these days I can imagine an interactive WII game where a person works out with a virtual partner. I don't see cutting out the teacher/student relationship, though.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  9. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    Wow great minds think alike, though a better platform would be to use the Xbox kinect system. A idea I've already pitched to closed ears..and with the 3D version the game with significant processor upgrades could just project your virtual partner.
     
  10. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Exactly. Of course, I suppose one would need additional transducers for the feet (2) and waist/pelvis-1 (and or chest/shoulders-1). Hell, you could sell a MA uniform with the transducers already sewn in the appropriate places. The only drawback I can imagine is the degree to which one could register fine-body/small muscle motion----of which there is quite a bit in locks. Large muscle techniques such as shoulder throws and sweeps probably would not be that much trouble, but I can imagine a variety of S-Arm techniques that could be a headache. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  11. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    The technology is there with kinect, I personally dont like Wii bc of the dependence on a controller. I suggest you go to your local electronic store and play/experience kinect yoga. The only downfall to Xbox is that the system is old, if Microsoft would ever upgrade the game and video processor it could be so much better and crisper.
     
  12. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    so where could a person start if they wanted to delve deeper into the trapping connected to our techniques? any video/book recommendations?
     
  13. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    trapping? Like punch/kicking trapping or wrestling? Either way I'm not sure, I get mine from my instructor and work with better partners.
     
  14. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Do you mean that these partners are *better* than yourself, or *better* than your instructor? :dunno: :thinking: :yeleyes:
     
  15. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    REALLY,UnK!!!! :rolleyes:
    Yes I meant people who are better, well not better but more experienced than myself. As if I needed to clarify the point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  16. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    although i understand you get amazing training in cl(im assuming clear lake), i was thinking more along the lines of analyzing the physics/kinesiology going on in techniques. teaching and practising are essential, but i was thinking more along the lines of the technique breakdowns in 'the human weapon'. dissecting a technique really adds depth. i dont know, maybe it's unnecessary for good instruction(knowing all about how astronomy really works didnt really help sailors of old get from one place to the next any better than myths and what not) but something about the breakdown of the techniques on that tv show really struck a chord in me as to the next level of understanding
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  17. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    What do you mean by 'trapping'? If you mean 'momentary limb immobilisation', then you might like to look at JKD or Kali for reference material, and see if and how it might relate to your particular art. Here's Paul Vunak (for example) talking about 'Trapping [in-fighting] Range': [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORcZD8qVuJ8"]Kali JKD Trapping-Paul Vunak - YouTube[/ame]
     
  18. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    You do realize we have probably the highest concentration of engineers of any school, right? They just can't help themselves from doing it.
     
  19. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Great video, Pugil[istica]. :cool:

    This is why I always liked kuk-sool, as the way I learned it was very similar to what Mr. Vunak explained, except that what he calls "entry" (into trapping range), I call "closing" (as in getting *in close* - no doubt why you chose "in-fighting" as a descriptor). As he so aptly put it, you can't use your entire set of tools until you're close enough, so the whole idea when fighting is not to keep your distance nor to seek the clinch, but rather to ENGAGE your opponent.
     
  20. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned


    Actually, I thought this was closer to the direction people were moving.

    As in the case of the thread on "CHI" I was hoping we had moved beyond the usual basic "how to" approach and were looking around for something a bit more sophisticated. I'm guessing there simply aren't enough people who are at that level of functioning to keep such a discussion going.

    My own thought is that if we are really tallking about people who are authentic 4th and 5th Dan we are talking about people who don't need to examine the fundamentals of locking a wrist, but are seeking after a much more technical examination of execution. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     

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