EastWinds, thanks for the reply. Personally, I think there is plenty of force in TJQ, or at least if your trying to use it in a real context. I think relying solely on neutralising and redirection will only get you in trouble. In fact I think the most usefull aspect me TJQ is that it teaches you to issue massive force in a very small space and in a multitude of angles which relate perfectly to the arts close range strategy. If this was not true, IMO there would be no need for fa jing/li in TJQ. At the end of the day, you dont want your opponent getting up after you have neutralised and redirected him towards the ground or away from you, thats just for training. I want my opponent to be down for the count. After or before redirecting and/or neutralising an opponent I would want to add my force to him, whether it be a strike or a throw derived via sound body mechanics and tension/relaxation balance. Some of the SPH vid shows just that, off balance the opponent and discharge a massive force on to him.