[Tang Soo Do] what is TSD exactly?

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Bruce Irving, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Bruce Irving

    Bruce Irving New Member

    i was wondering around the forum and iv never heard of this art.(sorry please dont yell at me) can some one inform me of what it is like/rules/ what are your primary weapons... and such. I'm in MT any cross referance?
  2. Jungdo

    Jungdo Valued Member

    I hope this helps
    Tang Soo Do (which means "Art of the Knife Hand"). Over 1000 years ago, Korea, then known as "Koryo", was a nation divided into three sub-kingdoms: Koguryo, Silla and Paikche. There was a constant war between these sub-kingdoms until 668 A.D. Silla emerged victorious and united the three into one kingdom.

    The main contributing factor in Silla?s victory was an elite corps of young warrior knights of noble birth who banded together with an extremely high moral code of loyalty and respect. These warrior knights were all experts in the practice of Hwa Rang, a sport involving foot fighting, which evolved into the martial art Soo Bak Do.

    Soo Bak Do flourished for centuries as the warriors defended numerous invasions from neighboring countries. During this time, the art was passed on in secret from instructor to student, but in 1910, the Japanese invaded Korea and sought to ban martial arts as a way to preclude revolt by the Korean citizens, and many great instructors of the martial arts fled the country. One of these experts was Hwang Kee, a child prodigy of the Korean and Japanese influenced martial arts, who escaped at this time because of the threat of the occupying Japanese to discourage any martial arts practice and training. Hwang traveled to northern China where he quickly mastered "northern hard style" Manchurian karate. In the mid 1940's, the five original Korean Kwans (schools) were: Moo Duk Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Yun Moo Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, and Chi Do Kwan. Encouraged by Korean patriotism, all of the styles except one were combined into a new sport called Tae Kwon Do in 1955. Moo Duk Kwan remained a separate art called Tang Soo Do, and Grandmaster Hwang Kee is regarded as the father of Tang Soo Do.

    Tang Soo Do is a classical martial art, and it?s purpose is to develop every aspect of one?s self. Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan (House of Serenity-also Hall of Virtue) is a combination hard and soft style, deriving its hardness in part from Korean Soo Bahk Do aggressive styles and its softness from the flowing motions of Northern Chinese styles. After being developed by Grandmaster Hwang Kee in Korea, this karate style was popularized by world famous Martial Artist Chuck Norris in the United States over 30 years ago. Thousands of Americans have studied Tang Soo Do Karate.
  3. Topher

    Topher allo!

    It is a Korean martial art (similar to Tae Kwon Do) and primarily a kicking style. Created by Hwang Kee in 1945 based on a Korean style, a Chinese style and some Okinawan/Shotokan Karate. Some say the style is basically Karate with a Korean name. I dont quite buy that for many reasons (although i so think there are many Karate aspects within the style).

    Probably on of he most heated debates in regards to the history of a peticular style. Check the TSD forums (and search) for the many many thread on its history.

    There are weapons in ths style (although i only know of the Bo)
  4. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    I just found this art myself and to my total gleeful suprise , it turns out that TSD is a battlefield version of TaeKwonDo as wushu is to shaolin and other more tcma s , and additionally Muay Thai is to Muay Baron and a totally effective and harmonious art philosophy method of it's own. TKD is ( as far as I know ) viewd as a sport only by the traditional practioners , similar to how I view Muay Thai and that apparently is why TKD enjoys such a rediculed rep.

    There's a whole connective history to TSD though that has a part in alot of our own arts creation and developement tales that most sincere practioners should find fascinating. Search Korea 1940/50's during the Japanese occupation for further information and if you're really interested and be prepared for some of those puzzle pieces to fall into place! ;) :)

    cheers and happy reading

    Blooming Lotus
  5. ATF

    ATF Valued Member

    From my schools website. Hope this helps.
    Tang Soo Do

    Pronounced (tong sue doe). It is a primary system of empty handed self defense dating back about 2,000 years. This style or system was originally used as a way for the common people to protect themselves from the sword of the Samurai.
    Translation= Way of the China Hand.

    Korean martial arts developed approximately 2000 years ago. Korea was then divided into three kingdoms: Koguro in the North, Paekche in the Southwest, and Silla in the Southeast. At this time martial arts were very primitive.

    Code of Tang Soo Do
    (Hwa-Rang Dan)
    1. Be Loyal To Your Country
    2. Be Obedient to Parents & Elders
    3. Honor Friendship
    4. Never Retreat In Battle
    5. Respect All Life

    Korea was first unified under the Silla Dynasty(688-935AD). At this time, the Hwa Rang Dan warriors combined the philosophy of the monk Won Kwang, who was the originator of the principles of our own Tang Soo Do, with Soo Bahk Ki (the art of foot and body fighting) to form the traditional art of Soo Bahk Do. The Hwa Rang Dan warriors aided in the unification of thier country and were the first martial artists to include a code of chivalry in their practice.
    The Silla Dynasty was overthrown in 918 AD and the Koryo Dynasty was then established. This militaristic society promoted martial spirit, and so it became a fruitful time in the development of the Korean arts.

    The Yi Dynasty (1392-1910 AD) followed the Koryo Dynasty and assured the continuation of Korean martial arts in two significant ways. First, the martial arts book, Mooye Dobo Tongi was written, which substantiated the sophistication of the combative art of Soo Bahk Ki. Second, as Soo Bahk Ki replaced Soo Bahk Do within the military, Soo Bahk Do became recreational for the common people.
    Korea was occupied by the Japanese from 1909 through 1945. During this time, the Korean people were forbidden to practice martial arts. Tae Kyun and Soo Bahk Do practitioners went underground to continue their training. In 1945, after World War II, these restrictions were lifted and many martial artists, including Moo Duk Kwan, as organized by Hwang Kee, were established. Master Hwang Kee combined Tae Kyun and Soo Bahk Do with the Chinese "Tang" method of martial arts and founded the organization called the Korea Soo Bahk Do Association, on November 9th, 1945, also known as
    Tang Soo Do.

    In 1965, the Korea Tang Soo Do Association was established in an attempt to unite the Korean Martial Arts under one name. However, the Tang Soo Do practitioners chose to remain as traditionalists rather than join the sport oriented Tae Kwon Do organization.
  6. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    :love: :love: :D

    love it!!! ;)

    My new tma !!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

  7. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Now that everyone has given all the historical stuff (which I think most of that Silla Dynasty, Hwarang linkages are all junk since EVERY Korean martial arts lay claim to a bunch of arts that have died out over the last generations...)

    Tang Soo Do (also known as Soo Bahk Do - the founder Hwang Kee changed the name of his system in 1960, those that broke off from his federation to form other associations kept the same name Tang Soo Do) is generally the same no matter where you go.

    Basics: Mostly karate like, with the key difference being more emphasis on hip torquing for power and speed. This is a major, major concept behind Tang Soo Do - you find hip is emphasized for kicks, form, everything. Usually these basics are done up and down the room like in karate schools.

    Forms: Forms include Okinawan Karate forms, such as the Pyung Ahns, Naihanchi, Bassai, etc etc. There's also the forms that Hwang Kee developed, Ki Cho, Chil Sung, Yuk Ro, which show more of the Chinese influence (Tai Chi like movements blended with more Karatelike movements).

    Kicking - TSD is from Korea, so obviously, kicking is a big deal. As I mentioned before, hip usage is critical for techniques. Lots of spinning techniques, lots of jumping going on too.

    One Steps: Differ from association to association. Generally prepares for sparring.

    Self defense: Differs from association to association. Generally joint locking, wrist escapes, etc.

    Sparring: Differs. In the dojang I attend for example, sparring is with no gear, increasing contact with increasing rank, head and body and legs are targets, with takedowns and groundwork sometimes.

    Usually there's breaking too. Conditioning varies from association to association, school to school. Other stuff like weapons varies too.
  8. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Hey BL, is this what your up to now? thought you were bujinkan? please come back over to our thread, we have not finished with you yet!!!! :D
  9. Yossarian75

    Yossarian75 New Member

    Eternal rage is spot on.
  10. Bruce Irving

    Bruce Irving New Member

    thanks for the replies guys they were every thing that i was looking for!
  11. chrischris

    chrischris New Member

    nice one eternal rage.
  12. McCririck

    McCririck New Member

    I saw a demonstration of this martial art once. It is visually very impressive. They do body flips and stuff and a lot of it is quite acrobatic. They learn weapons I think once they get to a certain stage, there's a bow, sword, nunchuks etc. I do tae kwon-do and I found some of their kicks quite strange looking. Their gymnastic ability impressed me the most.
  13. Legless_Marine

    Legless_Marine Banned Banned

    ER, Like you, I read the historys with a a skeptical yawn. You astutely observe that similar mythologies and histories are recycled for most korean martial arts: "blahblah blah koyro blah blah silla blah blah hwarang blah blah japanese occupation blahblah".

    You did, however, clearly state what the art is comprised of - Two thumbs up for an insightful, and informative post.
  14. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    I do hope this was demonstration stuff only, and that my teacher doesn't have some horrible surprises up is sleeve :eek: My body is far too old to start with these tricks :D :D :D

    Welcome aboard Blooming Lotus - nice to have you around. :) Anything in your area you can investigate at closer quarters?
  15. FastLegs

    FastLegs New Member

    Why do you think that Tae Kwon Do is just a sport?! There's some school that are based on the competitive side of tkd and some that teach those techniques apart of the other training. I'm happy that my tkd school is not based on the competitive side. My school teaches the WTF style.

    Just stop saying TKD and JUST and SPORT in same sentence!
    These are not good sentences:
    "TKD is just sport" :bang:
    "TKD is sport" :bang:
    sport-oriented is also wrong :bang:

    Every MA has the sparring but TKD has it on the olympic level!
  16. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    Calm down. I personally see it as a stereotype. I know that not all TKD schools are that way.
  17. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Yes there are TKD schools that are not competition oriented. However, in recent years, the majority of TKD has become a sport. The Kukkiwon and WTF have led TKD to immense sports popularity, within the Olympics as well as more amateur levels. If you are in a TKD school that adheres to more traditional methods, you are in the minority. Generally speaking, "TKD is just sport" has become more or less true. More = the majority of TKD. Less being your school as well as others, that emphasize the older TKD.

    There's nothing wrong with either. The sport is great. The art of TKD, when taught traditionally is great too. Just know where the tide is turning --> sport.
  18. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    Well said, EternalRage.
  19. malleus

    malleus New Member

    I've done TKD (ATA- practically nothing but sport from what I saw) and TSD (ITF). The TSD focused more on continuing development, a more harmonious life and balance- the "spirit" part of mind-body-spirit. With TKD, it was more like you developed only to get to the next level, the next tournament, the next trophy. My ATA teacher said it himself- "I teach mind and body... spirit, you're on your own."

    Now, that's not a generalization of the style. I have met TKD practitioners that were not like this. I have only seen and done 3 styles (the 3rd being a hybrid for those wondering); but I can tell you this: By the time I finish class, I feel like I could have every bone in my body broken and smash my enemy with my will alone. IMHO, this is part of what a MA should bestow to its students.
  20. ///M-Bramage

    ///M-Bramage New Member

    This last post is funny, as the WTF represents the sanctioning body for the Olympic TKD participants. That is about as “Sporty” as you can get… Now before I get my head bit off for slamming TKD or WTF, I train in WTF affiliated TKD.

    WAIT, now you are going to get me on "This thread is about TSD...." Well hold on.

    As the previous posts have summarized, TSD, TKD and a host of others are from the same descendants: Korean Karate. The origins of that go back a while and are agreeably not of much significance, for this conversation.

    What I have noticed is that TKD (insert style here) GM/Masters teach their style much differently, even under the same name. For instance, our GM is huge on Hip and Rotation power. We use TSD forms initially and then over to Palgwe. When I compare our training to that I see in other “more traditional TKD” establishments, there is little comparison. Having read this thread, I realize we are very TSD orientated, which I like.

    When I asked my Grand Master, he said that the Korean Arts are interpreted differently by each instructor, and they teach the way they see fit. Some for example train people to do well in competition sparring, while others incorporate throws and grapping, all under the same name. We train in some of the more obscure elements, many of which you do find it TSD. Bottom line, the name on the building may not necessarily represent what is being taught. This can be good or bad, but going in and watching (taking the freebie class) can really qualify what you will be learning. Have a great time in TSD!!!

    http://www.tang-soo-do.org.uk/history.html More of what is described above.

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