I was wondering how many people use these forms. Kee-Cho Il-bu etc. From my goodle research these are tang soo do. The Karate Classes I take do these form so I assume I am taking tang soo do and not tae kwon do. I'll ask my teacher next week but was wondering about anyones thoughts on this subject. Jeempc
Tang Soo Do and Karate Dear Sir, These patterns are Karate-Do, then Tang Soo Do. Many instructors changed their names to TKD for name recognition. TAEKWON! Spookey
Yes originally these were karate forms and still are. From my understanding with Hwang Kee's training in Karate prior to '45 is the influence that kept the kee-cho forms around, in the Korean systems. There are still TKD schools that use these forms as well, since the Moodukkwan was influencial during the time of TKD creation.
Thanks for the info. My school is called Renassaince Karate but we learn korean and use the Kee-Cho Il-bu etc... forms. I was just wondering what I am actually studying so if people ask I know. So you say it's karate-do? What does "then tang soo do mean?" My school is mostly aimed at kids and is not very intense but I joined to spend time with my 9yr old son. I really enjoy it thoug and look forward to better mind and body health. Jeempc
Interesting Facts! JeemPC, Karate originally meant "China Hand" but was later changed to "Empty Hand" based on the growth of Japan from all things Chinese. Tang Soo literally translates as follows...Tang (Tang Dynasty of China) Soo (hand) or China Hand... Koreans learned Karate during the occupation and taught them under Korean names. TKD was a change for Koreans moving away from Japanese influence as was Karate (Empty Hand) a step away from Chinese influence over Japan! Later the techniques of TKD were modified to give them an independent identity while Tang Soo Do remains truly "Korean Karate"! TAEKWON! Spookey
Yes Tang Soo Do is a Korean martial art. It was founded by Hwang Kee after he returned from exile in China. Hwang Kee had studies gung fu while in China, but also had formal Japanese karate do trainig as well. Tang Soo Do was originally known as Kang Soo Do. The name of Hwang Kee's school was Moo Duk Kwan. You will also here other names such as Hwa Wrang Do, Soo Bak Do - they play intot he history as well. there are quite a few informative threads in these forums if you look. The forms are a Korean adaptation of a basic Karate form. The stances and movements are Korean if you learn them from a Korean stylist. Does your school do the Pyeung Ahn forms after the first 3 basic forms? That would be traditional Tang Soo Do. Also Tang Soo Do translated means Tang (Tang Dynasty/China) Soo (empty hand) Do ( way). Tang Soo Do is "The Way of the China Hand"
Kicho forms We use Kicho Hyung il Bu for the first form beginners learn; we also are required to know Kicho Hyungs ee bu and sam bu too. My club is mud duk Kwan TKD but some TSD is incorporated into the syllabus.
Our Tang Soo Do class follows the layout stated by Andy Capp. Just got through Pyung Ahn Oh Dan today I'm a visitor at a local Shokotan Karate class, and their forms are almost identical, and it is the 'almost' that makes it interesting. Someone seeing a completely mixed class of students (at that level) might be hard pushed to see who is doing what - but for your own 'art' there is a right way and a wrong way. One major difference I've noticed D ) The karate class is conducted in Japanese, and the Tang Soo Do in Korean. (Check my signature ) Tang Soo!!
Ahh Pyung Ahn Oh Dan is a great form. Is your next Bassai? Bassai So or Bassai Dai? You must be somewhere around a 3 gup? Great times those!! Yes Shotokan Karate has many similar forms although their methods and movements are very different. We use our hips in the opposite way that Japanese stylists do. The Naianchi forms are very japanese and fun to compare between the two styles.
Just about spot-on. My record book says 4th Gup, but our instructor has revised how the school is working through grades (taking out the 'tag' elements) - so my next target is the Blue 2nd Gup sash. We worked over half yesterdays session on Hyungs, and I'm sure the 'next' form was simply announced as Bassai. I've been given a sneeky peek at some forms ahead of their time - before I got to Pyung Ahn Sa Dan, I had learned it as the charu (sp? - tonfa) form, we have a chul bong (nunchaku) form based on {damn - forgotten... }, and a walking cane form taken directly from one of the Naianchi forms. Do you (or jeempc who started this thread wondering what he was doing) incorporate weapons in your classes? I sometimes get confused where the edges of Tang Soo Do exactly are, and wether we drift into other arts that I should be learning the names of
Good question there. I was wondering what the heck you were doing with weapons in those forms. Tang Soo Do is an empty hand art. As you prolly know from your terminology Soo Do is a chop or open hand. Soo Do Maki = open handed strike or chop. Many schools have added the weapons to glamourize or spice up the art, but they are not traditional in this art, nor do I really thinkthey are necassary. As for Bassai - Most Tang Soo Do organizations only teach Bassai as Bassai Dai and have forgotten or purposely ommitted Bassai So. Bassai so = "Lesser Serpent" it is very similar to Dai, but has its own merits. We didn't actually learn Bassai So until 1986 when Grand Master Chung Sik Kim reintroduced it. You will really enjoy Bassai. It is a long form though. There are longer forms later on such as Kung Sun Gun (sp?), but Bassai will keep you busy for a while. As for belt colors...we never used blue. There was white, green, red, and midnight blue instead of black. Each belt signified a season. White = winter, green = spring, red = summer, blue (black) = autumn. Anyways, if you have any other questions, just shoot away Enjoy!!
My teacher says we start learning weapons when we reach Black Belt. I have so many questions about our style but there is not much time for questions as there are tons of little kids running around so I really apperciate this forum. Jeempc
If it turns out you are learning Tang Soo Do, then the link in my signature could be useful. As a scheming old goat that started far to late in life, I'm gathering together a group of unsuspecting wise-persons (must be politically correct) who I can bounce questions off. Don't tell them I said this, or they may rumble my motives. It may be worth finding out if your instructor is on e-mail. A carefully worded page with specific questions that he can answer in his own time may be an 'instructor-time-friendly' way of dealing with specifics.
Well, I talked to my teacher and he said we were learning Moo Duk Kwan but that it wasn't Tang soo do. He said he was trained in Ji Do Kwan. For forms we start with Kee-Cho Il-Bu Kee-Cho Ee-Bu Kee-Cho Sam-Bu Then go to Palgwe Il-Jang Palgwe E-Jang Palgwe Sam-Jang Palgwe Sah-Jang etc... Seems like quite the buffet He also said we we considered WTF. Thanks for all the replies. Jeempc
When the Korean arts were being unified [to create Tae Kwon Do] the Moo Duk Kwan (Tang Soo Do) wanted do remain traditional and free from political influence and therefore refused to join, however some of Hwang Kee's higher students did, and they created the Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan. You can read about some of the history here.
Nice Explanation Homer!! jeempc - the best way to know what you are studying is to ask your instructor. Many instructors these days adopt different form sets and adapt tehm to their own systems. Some stay with the "traditional" sets.
Yes there is a bug connection between Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do/Moo Duk Kwan and Karate in terms of poomse/kata/hyungs. The original/traditional hyungs for those Korean systems were a mix from Japanese Karate and Chinese Kung Fu. This makes sense considering that many if not all of the masters developing the Korean arts had gone to China at some point to train. Hwang Kee in particular lived in China for some time studying Chinese martial arts, but he had originated in Korea studying Japanese Karate. So you will see a strong connection between them.
