I pretty much have a basic understanding of every martial art i hear about on this board, except Tang Soo Do. I know there are more than a few on the board, so can somone explain the art, the history, the origin and where I might of seen it (in movies or maybe it was a precurser to other styles and such)?
it is basically a form for Taekwondo and most moves are similar to the moves found in most systems of Taekwondo. It is a predominately kicking art in the same way TKD is. Dont know much about the history or origin but hope that helps
In some cases. The techniques are usually similar, but the Hyungs are quite different. Tang Soo Do was created by Hwang Kee about (I think) eighty years ago. It is based on Tae Kyon, Tai Chi Chuan, and various Okinawan forms of Karate, probably Shotokan more than anything else, because looking at the Shotokan Kata, they are almost identical to the Tang Soo Do Hyungs, more so than any other Okinawan system. Tang Soo Do is a bit more circular than most Korean Kicking styles, because it has a basis in Tai Chi Chuan. Tang - Refers to the Tang dynasty of China, reflecting the shared cultural background between China and Korea. Soo - Means hand, but implies fist, punch or strike. Do- Way. I think the translation comes out to something along the lines of "Way of the Chinese Knifehand" At my particular Dojang, the form syllabus is as follows. Basic Hyung: Kee Cho Hyung Il Bu Kee Cho Hyung Il Bu Sum Gup Kee Cho Hyung E Bu Kee Cho Hyung E Bu Sum Gup Kee Cho Hyung Sam Bu Intermediate Hyung: Pyung Ahn Cho Dan Pyung Ahn Ee Dan Pyung Ahn Sam Dan Pyung Ahn Sah Dan Pyung Ahn O Dan Advanced Hyung: Bassai Hyung Nahachi Cho Dan Nahachi Ee Dan Nahachi Sam Dan Jin Do There are more after this, but I do not know all of the names or any of the order. The names Sip Soo and Kong Sang Koon come to mind though... I also did not include weapons forms, but we only have one required for Black Belt level, Bo Hyung Il Bu. As for seeing it, the most famous student of Tang Soo Do is Chuck Norris. DON'T NO ONE BE RAGGING ON WALKER, TEXAS RANGER!!! Hope this helped, and if any more experienced parties wish to correct me, please feel free to point out how I have made an ass of myself THIS time Tang Soo!
Shotokan is thought of by most OKINAWIAN stylists as Japanese. Since it is the style FUNAKOSI(sp?) created for the Japanese middle schools when living in Japan. He took most of the grappling out, removed the natural stances and made it look pretty for tournaments. I see the Okinawain hooks in the forms. These katas were not created in SHOTOKAN. Niahachi shodan - Okinawain beginner - intermediate Kata Niahachi nidan - Okinawain beginner - intermediate Kata Niahachi sandan - Okinawain beginner - intermediate Kata Bassai - Okinawian - intermediate - advanced
Shotokan is not Okinawan karate. It is one of the oldest Japanese styles. The difference is very clear when you read the books about different styles and see old photos and compare them to new ones. I don't know much about Funakoshi sensei and his life, but the books I have read claim that Shotokan as practiced after his death is a very different art. Funakoshi did not use kime the same way and people said that his karate was very fluid and natural.
If Funakoshi was Okinawian, He trained under ITOSU and AZATO both taught Okinawain TE. He moved to japan in 1922 and started teaching HIS Karate from what both sensei taught him. In 1935 his school was built and called the SHOTOKAN, the style of KARATE he created was named SHOTKAN. That would put it at less than 100 years old. The foundation of Okinawaian Te from the Naha and Shuri regions is much older, but that does not mean Shotokan is. The statement I made was because many shotokan stylist say they do Okinawain karate due to Funakoshi's roots but it was created in japan starting around 1922 and evolved until he death in 1957. When you say " fluid and natural " that seems to be one of the elements that was taken out of the Karate he learned in OKINAWA, As well has much of the grappling and ground work if not all and the rigid stances and striking was added.
Tang Soo Do is basically a Korean take on Japanese Karate. It is similar to ITF Tae Kwon Do, different forms and TSD is about 50/50 hands and feet. Tang Soo Do used to be a generic term for Karate in Korea but has since evolved into its own style. Most of the Kwans which merged to form Tae Kwon Do called themselves Tang Soo Do beforehand. Hwang Kee originally called his style Hwa Soo Do(way of the flowering hand). His school(Moo Duk Kwan) wasn't very popular so he changed the name to TSD and adopted the Japanese forms. At this time(1944) there was at least one other school calling itself Tang Soo Do(Chung Do Kwan) run by Lee Won Kuk. There are now basically two styles of TSD. Hwang Kee renamed the art Soo Bahk Do and added new forms(Chil Sung and Yuk Ro). I think these are intended to replace the Japanese forms and look a lot more like a mix of Karate and Tai Chi. Ive noticed TSD can vary quite a bit between organisations. Some use weapons, have deeper stances, more/less emphasis on hip rotation, different use of muscle tension etc A few other famous practitioners are Bob Wall(O'Harra from Enter The Dragon), Cynthia Rothrock of China O'Brian fame and Pat Johnson, he did the fight choreography/training for the Karate Kid and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies. Im sure he was in a Bruce Lee film but cant remember which one(Way of the Dragon?).
It sounds like an interesting style. Can anyone tell me the difference between Tang Soo Do and Tang Sou Dao, if there is one? Also, does either style incorporate any grappling or are they exclusively standup?
Tang Soo Do is a style composed from three major areas and styles, Soo Bahk Do (60%), Northern China Kung Fu (30%) and Southern China Kung Fu (10%) and the Okinawan discipline of Karate. __________ The creation of Tang Soo Do: Grandmaster Hwang Kee, creator of Tang Soo Do previously trained under a Soo Bahk Ki master. During the Japanese occupation of Korean, all Korean martial art were banned. Those who continued to train had to do so in secret, but many opted to flee the country. At the time of the Japanese occupation, Grandmaster Hwang Kee was a known Soo Bahk Ki master and under the pressure and surveillance of the Japanese government, so he fled to China where he took the art of Soo Bahk Do and sough to modernize it. After WWII in 1945, the Koreans had their independence and those who emigrated during the occupation began to return, bringing new and improved martial arts with them. After many years in China, Grandmaster Hwang Kee devised a system which was a mix of Soo Bahk Ki and it’s Chinese variation known as the Tang method. He named this art Tang Soo Do (The Way of the China Hand) in honor of the Chinese art. Returning to Korean to he set up the Moo Duk Kwan association to teach his new art. The creation of Tae Kwon Do: Due to lack of armory supplies during the Korean war, soldiers were often forced into hand-to-hand combat and to the surprise of politicians and Korean military leaders, soldiers trained in Tang Soo Do were usually victorious. Realizing how valuable Tang Soo Do was, President Rhee of Korea ordered what all soldiers must train in Tang Soo Do. In 1955 a research group was put in place to study the art and give it a new name. They suggested the name Tae Kwon Do. This didn’t go down well with traditional Tang Soo Do practitioners at that time. President Rhee however, agreed to the new name and intended to unite all the Korean martial arts sectors under it. This new government sponsored organization was the Tae Kwon Do Association. Tang Soo Do’s separation from Tae Kwan Do: All sectors including Kang Duk Won, Kang Moo Kwan, Kuk Moo Kwan, Chung Moo Kwan, Yun Moo Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Song Moo Kwan, Han Moo Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, and a part of Chi Do Kwan joined the new association. However, two major sectors didn’t join. These were other part of the Chi Do Kwan and the entire Moo Duk Kwan, lead by Greadmaster Hwang Kee. It was estimated that half of the sectors population were Moo Duk Kwan students. Despite Grandmaster Hwang Kee opposition the association some of his students joined the Tae Kwon Do organization and were called Tae Kwon Do Moo Kuk Kwan. Grandmaster Hwang Kee insists Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan will remain pure and will be protected from any political influence. Maybe this is why Tang Soo Do in generally considered the more traditional art over Tae Kwon Do. __________ There is no official history to Tang Soo Do, or most Korean arts, some people disagree, but this is the version i belive to be the most complete, which is a shortened version from the 'Tang Soo Do's News-Letter'. Volume 1, Number 1, Dated May 1977 You can read it in full here http://www.dartmouth.edu/~tsd/history.htm and http://www.tang-soo-do.org.uk/history.html
I think Tang Sou Dao is another variation of Tang Soo Do, its founder held a high dan grade from the Moo Duk Kwan. It seems to be a more Chinese(the name is Tang Soo Do in Chinese), they use the same forms and the basics seem the same, couldnt really tell you more than that. you can read about it here http://www.tangsoudao.com/history.htm Tang Soo Do has a fair bit of grappling in it but will depend on the school/org. My school practices a lot of Jujitsu/Aikido type standing grappling work with no ground work. I have heard of schools which mix in a bit of BJJ but TSD usually has no ground work.
I learnt a take down a few months ago, and i think the are some more we learn in the more advance stages. I have seen some takedowns demonstrated at tournements. Probably the closes we will get to grappeling, dont know about any other TSD clubs.
The spelling of the name of the art is arguable since it is a pnoenetic translation of teh Korean pronunciation. I am sure they are the same thing. Tang Sou Dou when pronounced sounds very much like Tang Soo Do. Just like Raw Hei and Lo Hei <- same form but I have seen it written both ways. Perhaps this is because some Koreans pronounce ther R's as L's?
Excerpts from my schools Web Site. Tang Soo Do. Pronounced (tong sue doe). It is a primary system of empty handed self defense dating back about 2,000 years. This style or system was originally used as a way for the common people to protect themselves from the sword of the Samurai. Translation= Way of the China Hand. Korean martial arts developed approximately 2000 years ago. Korea was then divided into three kingdoms: Koguro in the North, Paekche in the Southwest, and Silla in the Southeast. At this time martial arts were very primitive. Code of Tang Soo Do (Hwa-Rang Dan) 1. Be Loyal To Your Country 2. Be Obedient to Parents & Elders 3. Honor Friendship 4. Never Retreat In Battle 5. Respect All Life Korea was first unified under the Silla Dynasty(688-935AD). At this time, the Hwa Rang Dan warriors combined the philosophy of the monk Won Kwang, who was the originator of the principles of our own Tang Soo Do, with Soo Bahk Ki (the art of foot and body fighting) to form the traditional art of Soo Bahk Do. The Hwa Rang Dan warriors aided in the unification of thier country and were the first martial artists to include a code of chivalry in their practice. The Silla Dynasty was overthrown in 918 AD and the Koryo Dynasty was then established. This militaristic society promoted martial spirit, and so it became a fruitful time in the development of the Korean arts. The Yi Dynasty (1392-1910 AD) followed the Koryo Dynasty and assured the continuation of Korean martial arts in two significant ways. First, the martial arts book, Mooye Dobo Tongi was written, which substantiated the sophistication of the combative art of Soo Bahk Ki. Second, as Soo Bahk Ki replaced Soo Bahk Do within the military, Soo Bahk Do became recreational for the common people. Korea was occupied by the Japanese from 1909 through 1945. During this time, the Korean people were forbidden to practice martial arts. Tae Kyun and Soo Bahk Do practitioners went underground to continue their training. In 1945, after World War II, these restrictions were lifted and many martial artists, including Moo Duk Kwan, as organized by Hwang Kee, were established. Master Hwang Kee combined Tae Kyun and Soo Bahk Do with the Chinese "Tang" method of martial arts and founded the organization called the Korea Soo Bahk Do Association, on November 9th, 1945, also known as Tang Soo Do. In 1965, the Korea Tang Soo Do Association was established in an attempt to unite the Korean Martial Arts under one name. However, the Tang Soo Do practitioners chose to remain as traditionalists rather than join the sport oriented Tae Kwon Do organization. I hope this sheds some light. :bang:
Should be "tongue" I guess. The funny thing is I actually would pronounce "Tong" the same way. That would be a Bostonian pronunciation thing. Must hurry off to train wicked haaaaardddd.
Dude that's whicked retaaarded. I was just in Aaaalington and paaaarkin the caaaar....well you get the idea. Note to people not from the U.S. of unfamiliar with Boston, Massachusetts and surrounding area - the traditional "R" sound is dropped. It is the accent of the area. As far as pronunciation on Tang, well it is not pronounced as teh orange powedered drink. It is pronounced like Tongue and ATF said. I think the southern US pronunciation would by more like the powdered drink, but this again is an accent thing - methinks.
Tang Soo Do? Pronounciation of TSD firstly will depend on your mastery of the Korean language, secondly if you have learnt North or South Korean tongue, thirdly if you have learnt Chinese or Japanese Korean pronounciation, fourthly the regional dialect of the language, fifth and finally your own dialect and tongue influences. Pronounciation of any language will depend on the neccessity for accuracy to make yourself understood. What is TSD? If we look at the surface it is among many a fighting art relying on leg and hand movement to escape or destroy an assailant. Just beneath the surface it is a means to trip, throw or dislocatethe limbs of would be assailant. Deeper still it is a method of controlling and restraining an assailant. Still deeper it a weapons fighting art. Delve even deeper it is a healing art with theraputic applications. Nearing the core it is a method of keeping a healthy body and mind in tune with nature. On the cores outer surface it is a joining together of man and spirit. The core itself is a powerhouse of infinite wisdom and compassion brought to the surface by dedicated instructors who have journeyed to the core and wish for others to follow that journey and then go on to lead others. Or its` just a bunch of people in funny pyjamas throwing their arms and legs around to amusing patterns and paying someonelse to watch and criticise. "Peace and Harmony" BRITON
