I dont know much about tang soo do and i have respect for all korean martial arts so no one get angry at me- but what i heard was that tang soo do is basicly a koreanized versian of shotokan- i heard the founder like found a shotokan book and modified the moves and came up with tangsoodo or somthing like that- has anyone else heard anything of the sort?
It is. Both Tang Soo Do and TaeKwondo have their roots in Japanese Karate and particularly in Shotokan. They obviously developed from there. Anybody who tells you any different is either: 1) Off with the Fairies 2) Two Bob short of a Note 3) Works for the Korean Re-Engineering of History Party So there
TKD definatley has its roots in many pies. If thats possible Gen Choi did attain 2nd Dan in Shotokan, but there are differences. As there are with any MA. But there also has to be similarities - how many different variations of the action of straightening the leg/arm can there be?
Yes, there are now differences, that's the development of Fifty Years, but essentially TSD and TKD were Shotokan with a bit more leg wafting chucked in. Why do Korean Arts people find this hard to stomach? The clue is the original description 'Korean Karate'....
my instructor quite happily says that the origins of TKD are in Shotokan. But then he's not Korean. Perhaps the Koreans are fiercely nationalistic (is that a real word?) and to them saying that tkd/tsd are developed from Shotokan is an insult. Beats me, it quite clearly borrows a substantial amount from shotokan.
No cuz my instructor is Korean and he happily accepts that his style was developed from Shotokan. But then they're always those people who may take it as an insult so I dont know.
yeah, we get our influence from both japan and china. im not so sure about the korean master changing moves out of a book, though. Hwang Kee created much of the style from moves he had already learned, although i've never heard anything about copying form a book. its just an adaptation unique enough to warrant its own style respectively.
To best understand why some Koreans have a problem recognising this you need to understand something of their history. For a number many years Korea was occupied by the Japanese military. The Japanese vigorously repressed Korean culture. Naturally the Koreans held a lot of animosity for the Japanese. There are some who still do not like to acknowledge Japan's effect on their culture. Imagine after WWII trying to market Karate in Korea? Much better to say that its uniquely Korean, in fact descended from the fighting arts of the ancient Hwarang(sp) 'flowering youth' warriors. Mike
it's direct translation (so my half korean friend says) is hwarangdo= way of the flowering manhood. sounds scary if you ask me :Alien:
*Looks down, inspects - Nope - no flowers - Phew! (MUST resist obvious follow up - MUST RESIIIIIST!!!)
I should of worded this: 'Why do Korean Arts people find this hard to stomach?' a little better. I know why Koreans would find it hard to stomach, but why do people (as in Non-Koreans) who practice Korean Arts, continue to believe the Marketing and Myth-making and continue to perpetuate it, even when it's completely obvious that it's not true??? Is it that 'people' do not inherently question what they are told by someone who is in a position of authority (sensei, master etc) or???
Tang Soo Do uses the same forms as Shotokan and many other styles of Karate. GM Hwang Ki never studied any Japanese arts, he reputedly studied Tekyon(sp?) and some northern Chinese styles(Tiaji/northern long fist?). When he started teaching he taught Chinese forms but this proved unpopular with the Korean Public. He did learn the Pinans,naihanchi,bassai forms from a book, most likely one of Funakoshi's. This change is said to be to improve the popularity of his school as these forms were already being taught by schools in Korea that would later join the TKD movement. Hwang Ki supposedly trained these forms with other Korean masters from different schools, Won Kuk Lee from the Ji do Kwan comes to mind. Some TSD schools teach TSD only forms(Chil Sung/Yuk Ro sets) some of these are based on movements found in an old Korean MA manual, they look a lot more Chinese, kind of a cross between Taiji and Karate. Some schools intend to replace the traditional Japanese forms with these. If you were to compare TSD and Shotokan you would notice a big difference in the way they move. TSD is more relaxed and flowing than Shotokan which seems to use lot of tension. TSD uses a lot more kicks and I think uses the hips differently. But you would notice a striking similarity in the two arts, but no more than you would two different Japanese Karate styles. This is hardly surprising since TSD is Karate, Tang Soo Do means China hand way Karate do means China/empty hand way. The Korean and Japanese characters are even the same. I see it as a Korean reworking of Japanese Karate with a bit of traditional Korean and Chinese MA added.
Indoctrination? A belief that because their Teacher told them this it must be true perhaps? After all, Sensei couldn't possibly be mistaken, or just plain wrong, or even the victim of indoctrination himself, could he? Is it that 'people' do not inherently question what they are told by someone who is in a position of authority (sensei, master etc) or???[/QUOTE] Sadly I think that is probably very true in many cases. I've met plenty of people who believe some very silly things, just because their teacher told them. Mike
Easy to answer - Because they know the art at a higher level that the judging bystander. Tang Soo Do develops into a very Chinese oriented style at the higher levels of black belt. The forms are decendants of Chinese forms, and the techniques taught and practiced focus more on internal power and grace, instead of explosive power.
External power is young power, and it is inexperienced power. External power is wasted energy and sometimes can be cumbersome. Have you ever watched a master of the art that has been training for many many years? Watchthe way they move and how they generate energy. They do use hips and rotation just as the less experienced student, but they also generate a large amount of power from stance, and relaxation. Internal power is refined power in Tang Soo Do. Watch your senior masters when they do their forms and you will see it.
