As my constant ravings here suggest myself and the Glasgow Duellists have been constantly striving for authenticity of technique and intensity, where possible, in our research of German Longsword. Well the discussion on weapon simulators has taken a turn on the issue of technique. Currently we use re-enactment weapons that have 3mm edge to ensure that you can't accidentially cut. However this makes the weapon heavy and makes control more difficult. Also the handling characteristics are affected badly. So there is a thought to move away from re-enactment to unsharpen standard blades. Now the cut risk is much higher however we could counter this with cut resistant clothing. This strategy would also coincide with a new training level within the club called advanced freeplay where fighters would be trained to fight safely with this new generation of weapon. So only those that have achieved this level of training would be authorised to fight semi-sharp. What are our fellow HEMA exponents views on this. The Bear.
There are ways to lighten up the "reenactment" blades without sacrificing the thicker edge. However, you're not going to get them without custom work. So it will cost more. Going with standard edges will give you blades that are, frankly, less able to endure the stresses of freeplay. They will nick up. Yes, I know you're not SUPPOSED to have edge-to-edge in Liechtenauer/Ringeck tradition but that's in a perfect world. In the real world things happen. This will mean shorter life of blades, and potentially more "saw tooth cutting danger." But even without saw-toothy worries, the nicks will mean that you have to replace blades far more often. So it will cost more. Further, going with different blades will likely mean enhanced protective "armour" requirements. Yes, I know you have rules and generally accepted conventions, but safety has to be an important part of your mix because everybody has to go to work the next day. So it will cost more. Finally, having freeplay with these weapons restricted to only the uber members of the group might seem elitist, overly restrictive, or have the net effect of driving off potential members. Though I suppose a case could be made for that costing more money, the real issue is costing potential training partners. Peace favor your sword, Kirk
Trying that at the moment hopefully will see the results of the design in the next month. TBH most of my club members after the first year buy custom swords. Luckily we have Armour Class along the road who are prepared to do the work for a good price. Also they will replace blades quickly and cheaply. Well I burn all of my money on kid, swords, women and booze. What else am I gonna do? Not like I'm likely to live to 100. Well it would be like that if we didn't have the other two sparring levels. Remember at my club, everyone fights, every week. So it's not like they aren't allowed to fight unless the reach this level. It will be available to those who want to do it. It will not be mandatory. The Bear.
so this is probably going to be my stupidest in a long line of stupid questions, but... what did they do 'back in the day', as it were, when presumably the push for having very realistic training was even more real - given the chances of someone actually wanting to use you for real life cutting practice? Did they armour up, use different blades? Like I said, probably a dumb question... paul
Hey Paul, Well, once at a certain level they would have trained with sharps. They would have worn thick clothing or a gambeson. Even full armour training would have been a frequent occurance. The Bear.
Well, then it's a dumb question that a lot of people keep asking, including scholars and "well known" names within the community. Though there is still some debate it appears from historical records that training was done with Wooden Wasters, Steel Blunts, and (at certain times) sharps. This appears to be more or less consistent throughout the historic timeline starting with the Romans and going up through Medieval, Renaissance, and 19th C. arts (yes, there are documented cases of wooden "rapier" trainers). Peace favor your sword, Kirk
Yeah much like today there would have been a variety of training methods dependant on the master or school. The Bear.
So to a similar note, and maybe something to consider when dealing with the subject, what do you all do with regards to thrusts? I would imagine pulling them would make them easier to counter and less of a threat, leaving your people unprepared for the real thing, but even a blunted sword will puncture without that much trouble, well before you reach the point where you're not wrecking your training partner but not going unrealistically slow and light with them. At least this is the way it works in my experience, but I'm not exactly a WMA guy, nor a sword specialist.
Depends on the trainer that you're using. However, there have been, traditionally, two methods that seem to be "standard." First is to use blunted points. For instances, Foil and standard "3 Weapon" swords either have special blunted tips forged in or have rubber (or similar) tips that can be wedged on (they look a bit like miniature crutch tips from the medical supply store). The other typical method is to use armour. Of course, combining the two is the most common. Fencing Jackets & Masks plus blunted points. It's also not uncommon to simply make some kinds of thrusts and/or certain targets off limits during free fencing, trusting, instead, that other kinds of training such as partner drills and pell/target drills will be sufficient to teach those particular skills. Peace favor your sword, Kirk
Well, went to my armourer to feel the new blunt, wasn't happy so we discussed options and well long story short. The new sword will now be semi-sharp with an edge of 1mm. So if I suddenly go quiet, you know that I am probably dead, ha ha ha ha ha. The Bear.
I will start the collection to get you some special lightweight space-age armour made! Please send all donations to dontletthebeargetchoppedup.org Blank cheques and cash preferred. If nothing else we can have a great wake for you Bear! paul
ahhh, so this is all about the valkyries. I should have known and yes, there will be sticks at the wake. Lots and lots of them! Probably the odd sword or two as well.... Then we can have a whole series of OTHER wakes! Paul
Well I got my hands on the new prototype blade and the weekend that Armour Class came up with in repsonse to the change in my specification. It was stunning, the balance and weight were superb and almost exactly like an original of the period. So now just waiting on the sword being furnished before final tempering and assmebly. The Bear.
Went the swords are complete I will post photos of both the new generation swords currently in production. The Bear.
