takedown help

Discussion in 'MMA' started by munkiejunkie, May 15, 2005.

  1. munkiejunkie

    munkiejunkie sanity's requiem

    Hi people, I do japanese jujitsu and I am trying to learn to shoot properly(morote gari) I have it down to about four steps in fluidity, and the formula is
    1. Break thier stance
    2. Place your knee between they're legs, place you shoulder on they're centre of gravity, and put your hands on the back of they're knees
    3. Drive your shoulder forward, and pull with both arms.
    4. They fall too the ground and I place a submission or the like.

    Can anyone help with my technique and/or give me some tips?
  2. ex_cal

    ex_cal New Member

    Judging by what I've just searched on that takedown (here) the technique is fairly sound, although I must say the concept of doing so many things quickly, while someone can simply send an elbow into the back of your spine to stop the takewdown, is a bit hopeful. I suggest drilling over and over to perfect the takedown so you can snap it on at a moments notice.

    For general purposes I suggest the following:

    1) Make sure when you have your head under his arm, keep your head UP, never dip it. Look forward, have your chin turned towards his ribs. This is to avoid a guillotine choke

    2) Learn the guillotine escapes RELIGIOUSLY. Seriously, if I could count the amount of people that tap out in that move...

    3) Try it against as many different sized people as possible. It might be easy to topple someone of similiar size, but check it with people taller, shorter, heavier etc

    Hope this helped :)
  3. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    The setup of the shoot is very important - using such a technique as a jab, or waiting for them to commit to an attack is an excellent way to keep them occupied and minimise the chance of them sprawling you.

    Another important aspect of the takedown is the initial shoot; you've got go deep on it, and ram your shoulder into their stomach which will cause their torso to lean over you, putting you under their center of gravity, leaving you in a great position to lift them or topple them over.

    Another important thing to take into mind is keeping your head up and your back straight, if you stick your head down as you go in for the shoot, then your just begging for the guillotine.

    As for taking down a bigger opponent, it's quite easy if you can get that initial deep shoot into them. Granted, you won't find it so easy to pick them up to dump them, but its easy enough to topple them over by holding the legs tight and dragging them out under them, whilst pushing your shoulder into their midsection.

    If you've taken them straight down, and haven't picked them up, then you've always got the option of passing their legs to save you getting caught in their guard.

    You can do this by keeping their legs help tight together and moving around them into side control.

    If you've managed to lift them off the floor, then you can dump them hard onto their back by (referring to the below picture)


    moving their legs to the left then following them down (to the right) to the floor and driving your shoulder into them.

    Once on the floor, you'll end up in side control.

    Hope this helps!
  4. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    The best method is to do a low side kick into their legs and then shoot in. Watch UFC 3 and you will see Royce show you how its done. Its simple, but unbelievably effective.
  5. munkiejunkie

    munkiejunkie sanity's requiem

    So i sort of dive into thier stomach, stunning them and makeing them loose thier balance, then I drag they're legs out from underneath them, because I am not that strong to lift most people up
  6. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Rugby tackle them if you have to.

    Hip throw is pretty good way of taking them down with a throw.
  7. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Yep, the Guillotine is a nasty choke to be in. I got chocked out the first time I got in this hold. They were half my size, but all they had to do was lean back and I was screwed.
  8. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    It's more a front kick than a side kick :D I wouldn't even call it a front kick lol :D It's his classic technique that he's used time and time again to measure the distance and distract them in order to dive for the shoot.

    The problem with doing a side kick to open them up, is your hips aren't face on to theirs, they'll have turned to the side leaving you in a side on stance, which is very difficult to shoot from.

    Sounds like the right idea to me! Don't worry if you can't lift them up, as long as you get them onto the floor then the takedown is successful :) What position do you land in? Their guard?
  9. ex_cal

    ex_cal New Member

    Yeah its very effective... in fact some people seem to know how to do it before they even get taught it properly. Personally i try to slap it on and then transition them into a chest guillotine (kinda like what is seen here: ouch)

    Heh all the people I train love the chokes in sambo/bjj. Ahh they are good fun ;)
  10. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    There are a lot of variations. Try and find a decent wrestler to show you how to do it.
  11. JiuJitsu500

    JiuJitsu500 Valued Member

    if you want to see the best examples of someone closing the gap, watch some Vanderlai Silva fights.

    it is perfect, and he wins a grip, i think he's the best one to watch if you want to learn how to close the gap quick mode.
  12. munkiejunkie

    munkiejunkie sanity's requiem

    I dont like to land in they're guard, as it is a bad position to be in. I prefer too do a single leg morote-gari, as I dont land in they're guard
  13. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    On the double leg takedown, landing in their guard isn't necessary as you can grip their legs/knee's together, preventing them from shrimping, and move around to side control.
  14. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    Ha! I wouldn't even call Royce's technique a shoot! More like a distraction to a clinch!

    As people said - Keep your head up! Push your head up into the guys armpit and look up...that keeps your head level up.

    Couple of other pointers I've find useful:-

    - You'll find with practice you can break their posture and shoot at the same time. Hit them with your shoulder (into their centre of gravity). This helps bring their body weight over your shoulder to assist the lift. Yuki has already said that though :)

    - make sure your **** stays down...same as basic lifting...knees bent/back straight. Lift with legs not your back.

    - Rather than driving forward. Sweep their legs to the side. You'll find then you won't land in guard! In the picture, the thrower would drive his head to his right into his opponent, pushing the upper body one way. He then pulls the legs to the left.

    - Drill the entry into the morote gari/shoot til you are bored. Either by dropping your body weight (changing level - back straight!) and the taking a deep penetration step,

    - or if you do Japanese JuJitsu ask your instructor to show you the kneeling walk used in certain kata (I think its used in the ground work kata - katame no kata? forgive me if my kata terminology is not correct cos we don't do them!). You practice just two basic steps of this and you have the same basic entry taught by most MMA schools for a shoot! Plus it really really works your thighs!!!

    Plus I think someone said use a rugby takle if you have to, I would go very careful and make sure your momentum and direction for the pick up is "up" first rather than horizontally as the forward momentum in a standard rugby tackle actually leaves you extremely vulnerable for a reversal (although you do see some good examples of the pick-up in rugby when the players are lifted off the ground!)
    Last edited: May 16, 2005
  15. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    I love Royce!
  16. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    So do I - he's the reason I started Jiu Jitsu but he's hardly the best example of a technically correct shoot...he clinches as opposed to shoots.
  17. faster than you

    faster than you Valued Member

    landing in side-control is facilitated if the shooter takes down his opponent laterally rather than straight-back. controlling the legs properly also aids in preventing a judo-esque reversal which causes the shooter to end up being mounted. ahh, the old using your oppnent's force against him.
  18. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    Exactly. Like I said, there are a lot of variations. You can drive straight into them and land in their guard. You can drive straight into them, but hook your driving leg around their leg to trip them so you land in half guard (I preferred this in wrestling, but it wouldn't be as good in sub grappling). You can also pick them up and slam them so you land in side control. There are also ways to prevent guillotines, such as putting your head into the center of their chest or stomach (depending on how tall both of you are).

    Single legs are good, too, but I suck at them. They also seem easier for me to defend- even if they get in on it and elevate my leg it's still possible to throw them from a whizzer. IMO the best way to use single legs is either the sweep single or using one after a failed double leg.
  19. munkiejunkie

    munkiejunkie sanity's requiem

    I had my lesson today, and before class (while on the mat) I practiced with my friend. It worked. I do have to rush in and push them back for a few seconds, but then they loose they're balance.
  20. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

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